• Welcome to Stitcher's Guild Reloaded. Please login or sign up.
March 30, 2020, 07:55:35 pm

News:

A big Thank-You to all of you for your continuing support of Stitcher's Guild. :)


New Warning System

Started by DragonLady, July 18, 2017, 06:53:19 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DragonLady

In light of some of the member feedback we've received of late, a new warning system is being implemented.  The other admins and I are still working out the finer details, so more information will be forthcoming as we define the parameters and fine-tune the way it will work and be applied.

We've heard what you've had to say, and we're hopeful this new system will help us to make positive changes and reinforce the standards of civility and mutual respect we all want to see.


The road to our success is always under construction.
If you should have any trouble with any aspect of the forums, just email me: dl@artisanssquare.com

Buy a Subscription Now to participate in all of our great discussions! Less than .75¢ per week for all-you-can-eat access. :)  Gift Subscriptions are available, too; just message me for assistance anytime.

Visit my Etsy shop for gorgeous buttons, craft, & sewing supplies:<br />https://www.etsy.com/shop/RoadsideAttractions

Judith

I have, I hope, really tried to understand, or at least accept, other peopke's point of view.

But frankly I miss the grown up conversations that we used to have.

I find myself frustrated with the snowflake perspective, where people seem to be looking to be offended.

So I'm just going to stay away from stitchers guild for a while

But first (ah yes, cannot resist one last opinion). It seems to me that a very few people are making a big fuss over not much. What a pity that they seem to rule the roost.

I'm done.  See you all some time down the road. I'll drop buy to see if grown ups are welcome again.

Judith
People are generally as happy as they allow themselves to be. Abraham Lincoln

Lyn-J

There has always got to be someone who will drop into a thread and steer it in the direction of their own private agenda.this is what members are objecting too.

sdBev

DL

Loved being a member od SG almost from inception.  I am looking forward to the changes. 

DragonLady

Judith, if you're missing discussions we used to have, why don't you restart those threads here, and link to where the old ones left on the SG Classic board?

Everyone: I've been hearing about the "dying discussions of old" on every single board I'm a member of.  This is not an SG problem; rather it's a worldwide problem.  There's no one single cause, there's no one single solution, there's no one-size-fits-all format.

What it is, IMO, is a case of: worldwide unrest and worry.  The political landscape has a great many people living in fear.  Fear of terrorism, fear of losing benefits, fear of losing their jobs to machines, fear of super volcanos and climate change.  The insecurity causes generalized feelings of "dis-ease" which spread like a contagion.  That in turn causes a range of responses, and it all ends up in the great bean pot that is the internet, where it changes the flavor of the stew.

I LOVE SG.  I've spent most of my life for the last eleven years making this forum a priority in my life.  I've been made aware that many are unhappy, and now I'm trying to make changes so we can see another eleven years together. 
The road to our success is always under construction.
If you should have any trouble with any aspect of the forums, just email me: dl@artisanssquare.com

Buy a Subscription Now to participate in all of our great discussions! Less than .75¢ per week for all-you-can-eat access. :)  Gift Subscriptions are available, too; just message me for assistance anytime.

Visit my Etsy shop for gorgeous buttons, craft, & sewing supplies:<br />https://www.etsy.com/shop/RoadsideAttractions

KarenDee

DL, Kathryn and Lisa, that you all for all the time you apend on the .SG forum. Almost all of us here love SG and will love any improvement ideas from you three.

The only difference I see from the past to now has been an increased amount of snippy or unkind posts railroading the discussions. Hopfully those individuals will leave or quit posting.

Karendee

DragonLady

QuoteThe only difference I see from the past to now has been an increased amount of snippy or unkind posts railroading the discussions.


This system, we hope, will help us keep a closer tab on the "body of work" of those who are consistently causing trouble. 
The road to our success is always under construction.
If you should have any trouble with any aspect of the forums, just email me: dl@artisanssquare.com

Buy a Subscription Now to participate in all of our great discussions! Less than .75¢ per week for all-you-can-eat access. :)  Gift Subscriptions are available, too; just message me for assistance anytime.

Visit my Etsy shop for gorgeous buttons, craft, & sewing supplies:<br />https://www.etsy.com/shop/RoadsideAttractions

vtmartha

I have no problems skipping over things that don't interest me and staying away from those who make me uncomfortable but I will draw the line at a 'warning'.  I understand it's your prerogative but it just seems juvenile and arbitrary.  It may make no difference at all but I suspect someone will invoke it in their own interest.

DragonLady

QuoteIt may make no difference at all but I suspect someone will invoke it in their own interest.


Only mods will be able to invoke a warning.
The road to our success is always under construction.
If you should have any trouble with any aspect of the forums, just email me: dl@artisanssquare.com

Buy a Subscription Now to participate in all of our great discussions! Less than .75¢ per week for all-you-can-eat access. :)  Gift Subscriptions are available, too; just message me for assistance anytime.

Visit my Etsy shop for gorgeous buttons, craft, & sewing supplies:<br />https://www.etsy.com/shop/RoadsideAttractions

vtmartha

I understand that would be the case but I doubt any of this discussion would be happening had it not been for membership pressure.

DragonLady

Quote from: vtmartha on July 19, 2017, 05:48:17 am
I understand that would be the case but I doubt any of this discussion would be happening had it not been for membership pressure.


Well.... The member complaints caused us to take a second look at the whole situation, for sure.

The road to our success is always under construction.
If you should have any trouble with any aspect of the forums, just email me: dl@artisanssquare.com

Buy a Subscription Now to participate in all of our great discussions! Less than .75¢ per week for all-you-can-eat access. :)  Gift Subscriptions are available, too; just message me for assistance anytime.

Visit my Etsy shop for gorgeous buttons, craft, & sewing supplies:<br />https://www.etsy.com/shop/RoadsideAttractions

karent

Quote from: vtmartha on July 19, 2017, 05:24:55 am
I have no problems skipping over things that don't interest me and staying away from those who make me uncomfortable but I will draw the line at a 'warning'.  I understand it's your prerogative but it just seems juvenile and arbitrary.  It may make no difference at all but I suspect someone will invoke it in their own interest.

Vtmartha, I think there are two issues that have been going on.  I agree with you on one of them. I agree about skipping over things if they are topics you aren't interested in.  Everyone does that. For (presumably) adults to insist they don't even have topics they aren't interested in appear in their line of sight does seem a bit naive, but so be it.  It really isn't a difficult thing, and if it makes the more sensitive members happy, so be it.

Unfortunately, it isn't always just a case of not skipping over things that don't interest.  The problem, for some of us, has been an almost guaranteed attack by certain people when we post.  I've had it done to me, I've seen it done to others, and I've discussed it with people who told me it had been done to them.  It is the same few people on the attack, yes, but there has been no other way to handle other than a) not post, b) leave SG, or c) try to fight back, which never works with people who have an agenda to cause turmoil.  It has made what used to be a pleasant experience very trying, and has impeded what used to be normal conversation here.  I've mentioned before that a lot of us are talking in other venues, not because we wanted to leave SG, but because never knowing when someone is going to drop a bomb and derail the conversation becomes very irritating. 

Thank you Dragon Lady.  K

Pina

Quote from: karent on July 19, 2017, 09:04:23 am
Unfortunately, it isn't always just a case of not skipping over things that don't interest.  The problem, for some of us, has been an almost guaranteed attack by certain people when we post.  I've had it done to me, I've seen it done to others, and I've discussed it with people who told me it had been done to them.  It is the same few people on the attack, yes, but there has been no other way to handle other than a) not post, b) leave SG, or c) try to fight back, which never works with people who have an agenda to cause turmoil.  It has made what used to be a pleasant experience very trying, and has impeded what used to be normal conversation here.  I've mentioned before that a lot of us are talking in other venues, not because we wanted to leave SG, but because never knowing when someone is going to drop a bomb and derail the conversation becomes very irritating. 

Thank you Dragon Lady.  K


Karent,I agree with your comments.   ;)
I hesitated to chime in,I have no control over other people,I can only control myself and I don't like to stir the pot.  ;)

I can't respect people who label or call other people names and or criticise our dedicated volunteer moderators. DL and our moderators are here day and night. Yes I can see it at the bottom on SG. Has anyone else ever volunteered day and night ? ?

No,I'm not leaving SG either ! If someone has a problem with my comments on SG there is a better,kinder way than labeling me,(in the closed topic). Notify the mods.  ;)

Helen M

I agree with Karent.

I changed my mind about 'opting in' and opted out, then posted on the now closed thread about members leaving because for the first time I saw it from the other angle. I don't think my post showed any anger, none was meant that is for sure, but I merely wanted to comment having realised it maybe wasn't posters just being finicky. I then felt I was being 'got at' for changing my mind but with the time difference I couldn't respond to last post before the thread was closed.

It's a difficult one. I used to be an admin on a news and current affairs forum attached to a BBC radio news programme and gosh it's hard to moderate heavy weight topics even on a dedicated forum.

I won't be leaving either!
Sewing in Cheshire

vtmartha

Quote from: karent on July 19, 2017, 09:04:23 am
The problem, for some of us, has been an almost guaranteed attack by certain people when we post.  I've had it done to me, I've seen it done to others,


Yes, I've had that experience myself.  I hope this solves the problem.

GorgeousThings

FWIW, I've found the ignore user option to be quite handy. There aren't many, and I haven't had any personal attacks on me (yet - knock wood!).

SheriC

I think that because we all want to protect everyone's right to their opinion that we allow people who are angry to spew all over the rest of us.  Because of course they have their right to their own opinion and we as tolerant people must put up with whatever they throw at us.  Right?

But if they have the right to their opinions why can't they allow us our opinions? Why the attacks when we disagree? 

If expecting people to be civil when expressing their opinions is wrong, then I'm always going to be wrong.  Because you should be able express yourself without insulting people that don't agree with you.

I've been on other places online that don't tolerate bad behavior.  So maybe we have just reached a point on this forum where a warning is necessary for the good of the many. As Spock said on Star Trek ;D

Just My Humble Opinion

DragonLady

QuoteIf expecting people to be civil when expressing their opinions is wrong, then I'm always going to be wrong.  Because you should be able express yourself without insulting people that don't agree with you.


The way I see it, the ways it is acceptable to express yourself are becoming narrower and narrower.  The definition of "offensive" keeps moving, and that makes it hard to agree about where the "bright line" should be.

If we try to cater to the absolute lowest common denominator, the point where no one is ever offended, we won't have a forum.  That is why no one has the right not to be offended -it just isn't possible.

We can agree -I hope- on new standards for what will or will not be tolerated here; but I don't think we can ever reach a point where no one is offended, ever.  It's just not possible, not even between two people alone on a deserted island -eventually one will insult the other, intentionally or otherwise.
The road to our success is always under construction.
If you should have any trouble with any aspect of the forums, just email me: dl@artisanssquare.com

Buy a Subscription Now to participate in all of our great discussions! Less than .75¢ per week for all-you-can-eat access. :)  Gift Subscriptions are available, too; just message me for assistance anytime.

Visit my Etsy shop for gorgeous buttons, craft, & sewing supplies:<br />https://www.etsy.com/shop/RoadsideAttractions

ejvc

I'm offended by your idea that you would offend me :-)

Seriously, I respect the excellent moderation here and am sure it will be OK.
Sewing and machine knitting in Karlstad, Sweden.

Find me at my blog: http://ejvc.wordpress.com
- on Ravelry as ejvc  and on Flickr as EJ VC.  Kind of a theme.  Deleted my insta account - hate the way Facebook (who own Instagram) treats my personal info so not giving it any more.

sdBev

July 20, 2017, 09:42:14 am #19 Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 09:45:25 am by sdBev
Quote from: SheriC on July 19, 2017, 05:45:59 pm...But if they have the right to their opinions why can't they allow us our opinions? Why the attacks when we disagree?
where is my LIKE button

Quote from: DragonLady on July 19, 2017, 10:11:21 pm...

The way I see it, the ways it is acceptable to express yourself are becoming narrower and narrower.  The definition of "offensive" keeps moving,
which leaves me bewildered when things I said yesterday were funny but for no reason I can see are now repulsive and I become a hate target.  In fact, I m not sure why Im still reading this topic. These things tend to go bad quickly. I usually read once and depart without comment.  Pity, I used to be sociable but now I m afraid to be.

mrseccentric

am i fourth-ing or fifth-ing karent's comment? Lost count! At any rate i look forward to seeing more sewing topic threads popping up on my feed :)


FrancesGrimble

July 20, 2017, 12:29:16 pm #21 Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 12:34:00 pm by FrancesGrimble
Has anyone ever been on a forum that *didn't* have thread drift?  If people think a message is off topic they can just continue to post on topic themselves.  They can even say, "I don't see why bringing up Hitler is relevant to this conversation." They don't need to think of thread drift as a takeover aimed at them.  They also don't need to think of disagreement with their point of view as an "attack" that should never happen instead of a point they can counter with their own sensible comments. If they have a point of view they have a good reason for it.

Just for the record, I absolutely loathe "feeds" from any forum or site. I have blocks set up at my ISP's site to make sure I never receive notifications of "Someone just posted on X forum about . . . " *I* control what I read and in what order, thank you.
Frances Grimble
Books on making historic clothing
www.lavoltapress.com

Lyn-J

Funny how the usual suspects aren't really present on this thread  ???

Pina

Quote from: sdBev on July 20, 2017, 09:42:14 am
.....which leaves me bewildered when things I said yesterday were funny but for no reason I can see are now repulsive and I become a hate target.


Bev,I never read one unkind comment you posted. As a matter of fact I learned something new to me when you shared your knowledge. Thank you very much !   :)   :)

FrancesGrimble

I expect that for a while, our long-suffering moderators will receive a deluge of complaints about practically everything.
Frances Grimble
Books on making historic clothing
www.lavoltapress.com

Altered ID

Quote from: Lyn-J on July 20, 2017, 02:50:12 pm
Funny how the usual suspects aren't really present on this thread  ???


I better get on here now then, before someone thinks it's me!   :P

Is there anywhere that a list of rules behavioral expectations posting guidelines no-no's can be found?

FrancesGrimble

July 20, 2017, 03:40:34 pm #26 Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 03:42:55 pm by FrancesGrimble
Hope not.  The problem with terms like "rude" and "unkind" is they mean *anything* the person who uses them wants them to mean.

I was once on a forum where someone argued that everyone should put, "it's just my opinion" in every post. The posts were all signed, so who else's opinion (statement, information, whatever) could it be? 
Frances Grimble
Books on making historic clothing
www.lavoltapress.com

Altered ID

Quote from: FrancesGrimble on July 20, 2017, 03:40:34 pm
Hope not.  The problem with terms like "rude" and "unkind" is they mean *anything* the person who uses them wants them to mean.


Of course, I agree, but what matters in a warning system is how the admins/moderators define them, or whatever other words a complaining member might use when they hit that "report to moderator" button.

Quote
I was once on a forum where someone argued that everyone should put, "it's just my opinion" in every post. The posts were all signed, so who else's opinion (statement, information, whatever) could it be?


LOL.  Hey!  I'll have you know these internet forums are serious business!  Serious, I tell you!  <giggle>   ;)

SheriC

Quote from: DragonLady on July 19, 2017, 10:11:21 pm
QuoteIf expecting people to be civil when expressing their opinions is wrong, then I'm always going to be wrong.  Because you should be able express yourself without insulting people that don't agree with you.


The way I see it, the ways it is acceptable to express yourself are becoming narrower and narrower.  The definition of "offensive" keeps moving, and that makes it hard to agree about where the "bright line" should be.


I find it too easy to see everyone's point.  We can't go to far to the left or right, but what is the acceptable middle of the issue?

Some of us are too easily offended and that makes them angry and feeling bullied.  Some of us feel that our opinions and aggressive conversational style shouldn't found hurtful.  And that leaves some of us reluctant to join conversations where we feel we may be attacked for our opinion.  But we can't all just come to read and not join in, because then what would there be left to read?

The moderators have a really hard job finding the middle ground.  I'm really glad that it's not my job, I get stressed just thinking about it.  You all are fantastic for doing this job.

srna

Some of us are more sensitive than others, and for good reason.  I, for one, found out within the last year or so that what I thought was a difficult marriage actually involves emotional abuse, and that both my MIL and my father are also emotional abusers, neither my husband or I knew any other way.  I have PTSD as a result of having been subjected to this for my entire life.  Surviving it has made me hyper-aware and hyper-sensitive, even when I'm not quite sure what is making me uncomfortable at first.

Nearly everyone I know who is paying attention to current events is scared and frustrated.  The thing is, people on different ends of the political spectrum are BOTH scared and frustrated.  It's put so many of us on edge, and even people who aren't ordinarily short-tempered or prone to being overly blunt, or making insensitive remarks, are doing so.  When you add that level of anxiety to the fact that, in an online forum, you only have the words, not the non-verbals that provide context, hurt feelings and arguments are even more bound to happen than in the past.

But I've also noticed that some people consider themselves 'policers' of the truth, and there is often a piling-on effect.  Not just here.  Just because what someone is saying doesn't fit the conventional wisdom, doesn't mean that it's wrong, or that the person saying it needs to be corrected.  My biggest awakenings have come since I realized that neither major political party represents me any more.  I've always tried to put myself in someone else's shoes in order to understand where they're coming from, and why they're saying or doing what they are.  That has allowed me to realize that I have a lot in common with people whose views, political, religious or otherwise, are very different from mine, or even abhorrent to me.  Refusing to work toward a common goal, with someone whose views are not identical to mine, serves no useful purpose, in my opinion.  Divisiveness and ganging up serve no useful purpose.  I don't even think labels or the traditional left/right spectrum serve a useful purpose any more, if they ever did.  No single person, group or media outlet is completely right or completely wrong, and yet some individuals and some media outlets would have us believe they can sort websites and publications into 'fake' and 'real.'

I have cringed at reading some of the comments made on SG in attempts to 'correct' someone else, and at some who have a tendency to be too blunt/aggressive for my taste, claim that they are being attacked.  I'm more sensitive than most, and didn't see any attack whatsoever going on--what I did see, was disagreement.  So much of what we view as an attack or bullying is more about hearing something unwelcome, or bringing our own baggage into an interpretation of what is said or done.  I am extremely grateful to the moderators for trying to balance freedom with civility here.  But I also think we ALL need to step away for a while before responding to something that makes our blood boil; examine our own baggage that may be contributing; and cut everyone some slack these days.

Ann

Snra, I tend to agree with you. The world is such that many people are on high alert; they are frustrated and scared. You never know what people will say if you state your opinion on a lot of topics.

I work in a place where you can talk about what are you making, the wildfires in general, and grandchildren. Outside of that you may have a customer explosion which you then need to put out. Lucky me, I get to put out other staffs' explosions as I am in management. Amazing what triggers people to explode; something as simple as whether an evacuation notice was issued or not or if we will return an item that didn't work that they thought would work. 

My work place also has staff that lie to get great reactions on other staff members, me included. The latest was about inventory and no matter what the manager and I said, the staff member kept saying it over and over again that my crew put 80% of the drapery rolls into the bunks backwards. Finally manager had to discipline the staff member as it wasn't true. I come home on high alert of sensitivity a lot of the time. Am I going to leave the job? Yes when the time is right. There is a plan in place and it will be executed.

There are times that I feel the comments on this forum are very blunt and/or aggressive. I only post on threads of my choice now and will leave them if I feel they become blunt and/or aggressive. I know my sensitivity has a lot to do with it and comments will leave me angry. As Frances said, rude and unkind mean different things to different people. I just hope that people will look at others definitions of those words when they reply. We are not all the same and some people have thinner skin that others (are more sensitive).

I know that DL and the mods have a big job ahead of them finding the middle ground. They are a fantastic group and I feel they are working hard for everyone.

Ann
Education is a journey not a race.

http://everythingsewing.blogspot.ca/




DragonLady

Quote from: Altered ID on July 20, 2017, 03:24:20 pm
Quote from: Lyn-J on July 20, 2017, 02:50:12 pm
Funny how the usual suspects aren't really present on this thread  ???


I better get on here now then, before someone thinks it's me!   :P

Is there anywhere that a list of rules behavioral expectations posting guidelines no-no's can be found?


This is the current handbook; it just hasn't been cross-posted here:   http://artisanssquare.com/sg_classic/index.php/topic,124.0.html
The road to our success is always under construction.
If you should have any trouble with any aspect of the forums, just email me: dl@artisanssquare.com

Buy a Subscription Now to participate in all of our great discussions! Less than .75¢ per week for all-you-can-eat access. :)  Gift Subscriptions are available, too; just message me for assistance anytime.

Visit my Etsy shop for gorgeous buttons, craft, & sewing supplies:<br />https://www.etsy.com/shop/RoadsideAttractions

Syndi

I have gotten attacked on the old SG, but just stay away from those topics that I think can get heated.  I recently got caught up in the one poster (that has attacked me in the past) and retaliated.  Although, ended it immediately, and didn't go back.  I do love this forum, and find most members very friendly, and always there to help me out, so I just stay away from the topics that don't have to do with sewing.  From what I've gathered, the behavior has permeated into other threads too, but I refuse to get involved and will just exit and move on.
I'm sorry it has come to this, but I suppose the anonymity of an online forum can brew this type of banter.

Altered ID


sdBev

Quote from: Pina on July 20, 2017, 03:11:38 pm
Quote from: sdBev on July 20, 2017, 09:42:14 am
.....which leaves me bewildered when things I said yesterday were funny but for no reason I can see are now repulsive and I become a hate target.


Bev,I never read one unkind comment you posted. As a matter of fact I learned something new to me when you shared your knowledge. Thank you very much !   :)   :)
..and yet I have been attacked both here, or more accurately the old SG, and my personal blog.

  OK that's final thoughts and comments from me.  I avoid these topics just because I have been a target.  Hugs to all of you.  We'll find our way through this.