To Longarm or Not To Longarm???

[WesternWilson]

I have been kicking back and forth on what investments I should plan for my quilting hobby.

Presently I have a D1, a great machine but I want more throat space and a stitch regulator.

This led me to check out longarms and frames...but I am not at all sure I like the longarm setup, specifically steering with handles rather than moving the fabric.

So I went back to looking at larger standard machines, and the Bernina 830 is now looking like a great compromise...large throat, the embroidery options I enjoy on my D1, the BSR, and a drop dead gorgeous straight stitch. My D1 does a very nice stitch, but there is something about that Bernina straight stitch...

Has anyone any advice to offer on this dilemma?

[crashnquilt]

I walked in your shoes for 7 years before making my decision.  If you are making larger quilts, full size or larger, even with the larger throat space on the machine you are still going to fight the quilt roll under the machine head.  It can be done, but you have to ask yourself, Is the fight really worth it all?

I bought the HandiQuilter 16 with QuilTable and have not regretted the decision.  My machine had stitch regulator but I've not purchased the computer system yet and really have no desire to make that purchase.

It did take some getting used to it.  In fact, when I first started I kept wanting to lift the machine with the handles!  But that very soon passed.  I love the idea that if I'm working on a certain area of a quilt and I change my mind on what I want to quilt there I can.  I no longer have to worry about getting pleating or tucks in the backing and I can use any thickness of batting my little heart desires!

Also, having the quilt loaded onto the frame, after I finish quilting that pass I can look over the quilt to see if I like the quilting or not.  I don't have to try to hold it up and look at it.  It's all laid out right there.

I hope this helps.  Keep us posted on what you decide.

[Quilt Queen]

Oooh tricky.
The difference between using longarm frame systems and manipulating a quilt underneath the needle of a domestic machine is huge.
I actually prefer to use the domestic, and I do massive quilts, queen and king size, all the time, for customers.  I have a D1 also, but as it is embroidery capable i don't particularly want to wear it out on a customer's quilt.  The other issue is size.  I have a Mega Quilter by Husqvarna Viking, and there are many other brands like Pfaff, Juki, Janome etc that have straight stitch only machines made on similar if not identical platforms.  The space between needle and side of harp is 8 7/8-9" depending on exactly where you measure with the measuring tape!!  It is lovely to have also additional height on this machine as it is designed to be put onto frame systems and allow room for the roller and quilt inside the harp area.
I brought home the Pfaff Quilt Expression 4.0 yesterday to do my straight line work and as a back-up to the Mega Quilter when it needs servicing.  That has 10 inches between needle and side of harp, dual lights and a tonne of very nice features to make life more rosy when quilting.
Neither have a stitch regulator.  If you are prepared to learn and practice you don't need a regulator to get great looking, award winning quilts (ask me how i know!!).  If you aren't prepared to do the learning and practice, you can get regulators to fit onto frames that the Mega Quilter or Pfaff grand Quilter and other brand machines with large harps can be used on.  So you don't necessarily need to spend as much as requred to purchase the Bernina 830 or even 820, which I believe are astronomically priced in America.  They will be even more here in Oz.

I can definitively say that even the 9" harped machines have plenty of room for quilts of enormous size.  I do quilts for customers and they are rarely less than queen sized.  I didn't have a strong back or hands before I started to quilt but dont' find it difficult so long as you set up your workspace well and take regular breaks to stretch and move around.  I don't know many people who make quilts bigger than 120" or would want to.  They can fit easily if you know how to boss them around.  Rolling is not the best option in many cases.  You can eliminate weight and bulk issues with careful Batting choice.  You don't have to roll a quilt to quilt it, infact many of the best quilters in the world do not-i.e. Diane Gaudynski, Caryl Bryer Fallert, off the top of my head.  But you will need to get the machine flat inside a cabinet and pop a couple of extra tables around it to do massive quilts easily and without compromising stitch quality, and to work without much strain on your back.   Even if you buy Horn cabinet and tables from a office shop, you will still be financially ahead than by buying a Bernina 820 or 830 and then having a cabinet built to accomodate its massive size.  Unless cabinets are soon to market, in which case you will still need one to do big quilts easily!
You may be better off to buy a great machine and invest some money in classes from the best machine quilters you can access to learn how to machine quilt really well.

I don't know how much the Handi Quilter package is and it may be worthwhile looking into.  However the feeling is different than what you are probably used to, so there is a learning curve to control framed quilting machines.  You will have to go through that no matter which model of frame and machine you choose.
It is a difficult question, and you will ultimately be the one to answer it because it is you who will be spending time working on quilts with whatever you choose.  If you can spend time testing framed systems vs non-framed domestics set down flat into a cabinet, do so.  They you will know how both feel and be able to make a wise and educated decision.
Goodluck with your choice and let us know what you decide!
Cheers,
Quilt Queen

[WesternWilson]

WEll, it is an ongoing internal debate, but at this point I am leaning toward acquiring a 5.5 mm Bernina with BSR for piecing and free motion work on smaller pieces, with the idea that I will demo every affordable longarm I can over the next year or two and decide a) if I can get used to that method, and b) which to get used to. I have been told Hinterberg is good as are the Handiquilter packages.

[Skye]

I bought a quilt frame earlier this year and then had to buy a machine with a bigger harp space I got a good deal on an Elna 7200 - which also like to sew garments etc on.
I like doing free motion quilting - still a beginner there but I find moving the machine on the frame didn't take that long to get the hang of it. I would like a "proper long arm as I find my quilting space gets down to 4-5" when I have a queen size quilt rolled up side the harp space. It is fun to use. I have used my frame to pin quilts that I wanted to just quilt straight line on the diagonal couldn't be bothered attaching large triangles of fabric so that I could do it on m,y frame. friends have used it to tack or pin out quilts as well. If I win the lottery I would love to get a bigger system so that I could let rip or program a computer witht the quilt design
It does take up some room and the felines think it makes a great hammock 

[tinksquared]

I have 2 Bernina's with BSR feet.  I love them both, and they're wonderful for quilting small items.  But doing a large quilt on a longarm is a gazillion times easier and faster.  I don't have room for larger than an 8 foot frame, so I used an HQ16 and it works really, really well.  Yep, it's confusing at first going from moving the quilt to moving the machine, but moving the machine is a more natural motion, rather like moving a pencil to draw.

[WesternWilson]

Well, since Santa got me a fabulous treadmill instead of a Bernina with BSR, I have decided to buy a used Bernina Artista 170 from an online dealer, and use that machine for piecing. It has the 5.5 mm feed dogs and CB hook that work so well for piecing. I also like the notches in the side of the Bernina 1/4" foot, which allow you to SEE the fabric and be sure, without going blind from eyestrain, that the fabric is lining up with the foot edge.

Then I will save up, not for a Bernina with BSR, but a full sized frame with a stitch regulator. Both Hinterberg and HandiQuilter setups have been recommended, and I hope to demo them at the big Quilt Expo this spring in Puyallup, WA.

Just as an aside, I did talk with our local Bernina store a few times (to make sure Santa had the right thing on my list!!!) and they really missed the boat with me. The first salesperson was nice, and enthusiastic, but directed me away from the 630 (feeling I did not need the embroidery unit, which was true, but she never considered a quote for just the machine, either), which in the end I vastly preferred for the better lighting and larger and colour computer screen. I would have bought the 440 with BSR that day IF they had allowed me to trade up penalty free if I found I preferred the 820 in 6 months when it comes out. They would not, so I started looking into used machines online (there are none locally). Incidentally, if they had offered to prepare an information package for me that I could attach to my Christmas list, with info and contact info for my husband, he would very likely have bought me the Bernina!  I went back just before Christmas as a dealer in Toronto (where my dad was pricing machines for my mother) said Bernina had just emailed out a sale three weeks before Christmas, which included a great price on the 630 without the embroidery unit but with the BSR (just what I wanted). The local shop offered to "match" the price (but wasn't this a national sale originating from Bernina Canada???) but "Just For Today". I really hate hearing "Just For Today". I find it high pressure and demeaning, and can't help but feel taking that price will make me a second class customer from then on, which is silly as I would be paying just as much for accessories, etc., but there you go. I left the shop with a bad taste in my mouth and decided to pass on the new Berninas entirely, get an affordable used one for piecing, and put my money into a frame setup with a stitch regulator instead.

[sdBev]

...but "Just For Today". I really hate hearing "Just For Today"...

As soon as I hear that, I walk away.

[Quilt Queen]

Oooh, Just for today really smacks of desperation doesn't it?
If they feel the need to so pressure you, how much confidence do they have in their product I wonder?  Or maybe they just want you to panic, and buy whatever they throw at you before you have time to think things through and change your miind.
You may get a second hand sale through one of the lists around, sometimes people sell to upgrade.  Worth keeping an eye on your reliable dealers for trade ins: get them to call you if they can be bothered!!!
Or ebay if you can test the machine and trust the seller (tricky).
Or newspaper ads where you can test the machine.

Either way you will be happy now you have made y our decision: well done for the hardest part!
Cheers,
Quilt Queen

[Pat with Cats]

A year ago I bought a Viking Mega Quilter without the frame and I love it. I don't quilt a lot but really enjoy this machine. I have did quilt-in-the-ditch on a queen size quilt with no problem. It also does great free motion quilting. I had previously used my Pfaff 7510 for free motion quilting. It's amazing what a difference a few extra inches of space will do for you. I find myself using this machine for most of my straight stitching. I don't have a place to keep all my machines up and ready to sew. The Mega Quilter can be used for piecing, quilting and sewing on binding.
 

[WesternWilson]

I assume the MegaQuilter has the same difficulty as my D1 and many other wide feed dog machines...the price you pay for wide decorative stitches is that to sew a 1/4" seam with the 1/4" piecing foot using the single hole stitch plate, the right edge of the fabric barely falls on the right feed dog, causing your quilt piece to wobble as you sew, and giving you inaccurate 1/4" seams unless you are VERY vigilant. You can get that 1/4" inch seam but you always have to fight for it.

After sewing 1/4" seams on a 5.5 mm feed dog Bernina, where ALL your fabric is squarely on the feed dogs, and sewing that critical 1/4" seam is much, much easier (no wandering at all), there was no going back. I definitely want a 5.5 mm feed dog setup on my main piecing machine. Alas the larger Bernina all have 9 mm feed dogs, not so good for piecing.

As a lovely bonus, I really liked the Bernina piecing foot, which has notches cut into the sides. This means you can easily see the fabric lining up with the foot edge...with the more typical solid edged feet, you have to peer sideways and strain to make sure that fabric is in the right place. The simple fix provided by those notches makes the task infinitely more easy.

[Pat with Cats]

The Mega Quilter only does a straight stitch, so it doesn't have a wide feed dog. I think it is about 5 mm.

[desertdebbe]

I have been quilting about 9 years now. I loved the piecing part but when it came to the
actual quilting I hated it. My shoulders ached from pulling the quilt all over. The basting was
a nightmare, and I always ended up with at least one pucker. I then tried the John Flynn frame.
I did this because it was very inexpensive and worth a shot. The only good parts about it for me was
the NO BASTING part and no puckers. Other than that it was terribly frustrating. I then got a
Hinterberg stretch frame. I chose it because it was suppose to be easier to take up and down.
I haven't taken it down so not sure how easy it will be. I had a Juki 98Q on that frame and really liked
it although it has a problem of long stitches when you push the machine back and away from you.
Many owners of them make the same comment. I then found a Bailey 13" on Craigslist. It was local
and I got to try it out. I fell in love with the process of quilting a top!
I am very happy with my set up which can be purchased for about $2500. new. machine and frame.
A stitch regulator is another $600 but I hear well worth it. I don't own one.
I've never been sorry about the machine purchase.

Good luck,
Desertdebbe
www.quiltangels.lefora.com