The future of SG

[KayoticSewing]

Hi Dragonlady,

I had sent in a donation earlier this year in May  and I don't see that I'm  a paid member yet on my profile.

After the subscription model was announced, I had sent a personal msg to you about it (with donation date, paypal email id) The original paypal donation also had my forum username  in the notes. I haven't heard back from you yet. Do you need any other information from me?

Thanks!

[DragonLady]

What is the cut-off date for those who are not subscribing?

I can't give an exact date, because too much of it is still up-in-the-air at the moment. 

[DragonLady]

Hi Dragonlady,

I had sent in a donation earlier this year in May  and I don't see that I'm  a paid member yet on my profile.

After the subscription model was announced, I had sent a personal msg to you about it (with donation date, paypal email id) The original paypal donation also had my forum username  in the notes. I haven't heard back from you yet. Do you need any other information from me?

Thanks!

Ughmmmmmmmmmm

Let me look; I may have missed your message.

[DragonLady]

Hi Dragonlady,

I had sent in a donation earlier this year in May  and I don't see that I'm  a paid member yet on my profile.

After the subscription model was announced, I had sent a personal msg to you about it (with donation date, paypal email id) The original paypal donation also had my forum username  in the notes. I haven't heard back from you yet. Do you need any other information from me?

Thanks!

I don't have a message from you on my list.  I'm sorry; I've received so many of them it's possible I accidentally deleted it.  Would you resend it, and be sure to include your real name so I can fix you up?

[DragonLady]

Kayotic, I can't find you searching PayPal either, so apparently your email address there is different then here; so I'll need the info from you again.

I'll get you properly credited as soon as I receive it from you.

[karent]

I think Pipsy's idea of an email blast is a very good one, particularly if those from past members who couldn't find/didn't know about or get into the new site (I have several friends in those situations) are available.

Though I reserve the right to change my mind  I likely will not subscribe for a myriad of reasons. I am in touch with/friends in person, on Facebook, IG, a little blog reading, with many friends I met here or further back when Sewing World was still intact, and have surveyed their thought. Out of maybe a couple dozen so far one will subscribe despite sharing some of the reasons why I may not, another is likely going to but as yet uncommitted. Most of these friends are incredibly accomplished sewers who haven't contributed/participated in awhile, or have done so very minimally.
I'm wondering if perhaps, if an email blast is done or even on the site (if it could be done anonymously), if a survey of why those who may not subscribe, giving reasons why, would be helpful in SG's evolution not just technically, but content wise?

Many thanks to DL and the admins who've voluntarily given so much time to keep SG happening for so long!

Yes, I was going to respond similarly to Pipsy's post, and then this popped in.  I have also been part of a conversation on FB, as well as some personal emails, about the subscription and whether to join or not.  From the emails, I've gleaned that about half of the people I've talked to will subscribe, to see if it changes the course of things, and half not.  From the FB conversations (and for the few who read here, correct me or pm me if I've not gauged the sentiment right) I've heard opinions of many that were long time SG members.  I've been here ten years and many were before me, or joined around the same time.  Previous frequent posters about everything from the Chatter to the sewing details.  Many very accomplished sewists.  This is a smattering of what I've heard:  the Chatter used to be a favorite place, but the criticism and the intolerance of varied opinions became a problem and a burden.  Those who were active in the conversation of everything from Japanese tidal waves to esoteric weaving drifted away.  Although there are always those who enjoy political discussions, or conversations about the weather, or shopping, or whatnot, everyone doesn't always care about all of them.  The thing is that an intolerance developed, almost mirroring the national narrative, where people not only didn't look at those topics they weren't interested in, but also objected to them even being choices here.  Objected even to them being listed as choices. 

Mods great, but with no real authority, so if someone was abusive or inordinately argumentative (please understand this isn't "has another opinion" but rather frank bullying), they were not checked in any effective way.  One very much loved member, who has astounding technical sewing expertise and willingly shared it, shared with me before she abruptly left that the personal messaging bullying was too much.  There was seemingly no outlet to deal with other members who were hypercritical and ugly, and who made a point to disrupt discussions with argumentative and insulting posts that disrupted constructive conversation.

There are a lot of new people here all the time, and that is a good thing, but I've heard (and made) comments that the postings dwindled over time from more interesting topics to things like "what machines do you have?"  Don't flame me, I agree but understand everything is new to someone, but that does get old after ten years. 

There is more, but I think maybe everyone gets the gist that there are many reasons people have left, or didn't come back after the flood.  I kind of semi-considered asking the group of old members I communicate with whether we should storm SG and vow to come back and work at making it what it once was.  Although there was a lot of wistful reminiscence, I didn't really hear a rally rising about bringing it back.  I don't know the answer, but my thoughts a week or two ago about sending messages out to previous members seems an unlikely answer.  Keep in mind, this is all my own anecdotal experience and is certainly related to those people I keep up with.  Each of them are socially aggressive, wide ranging in their thinking, and have a wide variety of interests that include, but are not limited to, sewing and similar pursuits.  We had a good time here, but what I'm hearing is that the tone of the board isn't the same.  If we can't discuss current affairs without being sidelined to a secret club, so as not to offend overly sensitive powder puffs who can't tolerate reading a subject heading and deciding to read or not, I think an awful lot of the previous members are not going to be back here.  They aren't going to see any value, not just in subscribing (and the amount mentioned is truly reasonable for people who buy fabric and yarn and machines at the rate we see here) but in taking the time to check here regularly.  Frankly, starting a thread listing the names of people who have left here will not bring them back.

I am heartened by the number of people already becoming paid subscribers, hoping that the $ will help go ahead and get this to a more stable platform.  Is very hard to ask anyone to join an endeavor that isn't reliable.  As Grand River Girl said recently, many are not going to be willing to donate to something they can't reliably use (ok, that was a paraphrase of what she said, but I think close.)  Maybe a few things will be helpful.  Getting a stable website is #1.  Allowing the mods to be less polite, and keep a rein on the obnoxiousness (although controlling the membership should help it immensely, or maybe solve it.)  Maybe hire a real b**ch of a mod to bounce those who break the rules, no questions asked.  (Sorry, I have a job.. )
Allow conversation that isn't illegal or threatening to occur without censorship just because there are snowflakes (sorry, I don't know of a better word) that don't want to know about people doing something else with their brains and energy than sew.  Yes, this is a sewing site, but if you limit it to that, you might not have enough members to keep it up.  Look at the other sites you guys read, or know about, and look at their forums.  It isn't just here.

OK, so I have laundry and whatnot to do, as I'm working too much this week.  PSA:  we are seeing massive flu.  Mostly Flu A, but who cares, it's the flu.  Even the huge pharmacies in Tampa have had days when they ran out of Tamiflu, and people had to either drive across town (an hour if good traffic) or wait till the next day to get it.  If you didn't get a flu shot, get one.  This is an early season.  My staff and I all had flu shots and none of us have gotten sick so far, despite people coughing at us all day long.  One more thing:  if a doc asks you "are you coughing", don't say "see" and cough in their face.  It is a yes or no question.  So, end of PSA.  K

[Petlover]

Okay, do we have a group on Facebook??

[DragonLady]

Okay, do we have a group on Facebook??

No.

[marciae]

KarenT - great post.  I totally agree with all you've said.  I think the subscription model is long over due.  But, in the past when I'd mention I was "almost" tarred and feathered.  If the board gets going again I may well join.  $35 is more than reasonable.  But - - I'm wondering how many $35 it will take to move to a new board and sustain??  I'm on a lot of sewing groups on face book, subscribed to a lot of sewing blogs - and have joined several groups on pattern review.  Face book and blogs are the only 'free' reading I know of.  I moved over 'here' a couple of months before the old Sewing World blew up.  Sewing World was run on donations also - not a set amount.  I feel like I'm an 'old timer'.  Kathryn pm me so a very cautiously moved.  At that time a lot of folks moved and we had a wealth of information from several pros.  I had noticed some of them had left before the big crash - after the crash more have left.  I'm sure anyone that is still interested can 'google', check pattern review and find us - if that's their desire.  And, quite honestly, until this thread started things were pretty dead!!  just sayin

[DeniseMW]

I think not referring to people as "powder puffs" or "snowflakes" might be a good place to start a civil conversation about why people will or will not subscribe.

[marciae]

Denise - Karen was just stating facts  -  and I think she clarified that well in her post.  She was not being uncivil!!!!

[DeniseMW]

"Overly-sensitive powder puffs..."

"Allow conversation that isn't illegal or threatening to occur without censorship just because there are snowflakes (sorry, I don't know of a better word) that don't want to know about people doing something else with their brains and energy than sew."

How do those statements reflect fact?

Snowflake is "A term used to describe extremist liberals that get offended by every statement and/or belief that doesn't exactly match their own. These individuals think they are just as "unique" as snowflakes, when really their feelings are just as fragile." Which sounds like a pretty derogatory label to me.

I agree there's been way too much unchecked bullying on the boards, and some of the worst offenders have thankfully left.

But I don't believe the boards should be turned into an opportunity to insult or demean other members. I also agree that if members find a topic offensive, they should just move on to something that interests them. I'm just not sure calling members snowflakes or powder puffs is a way to create a civil discourse.

[marciae]

And replies like yours is why I pretty much have quit posting and question joining

[DragonLady]

Without conflict, and serious -deep- differences of opinion, there is no discussion.

Do we want a lively board where everyone has a voice -even those you don't want to hear, or do we want a nice, polite, peaceful graveyard?

If needed, I'll elaborate on this post, but I'm being serious -and your admin- when I say this.  If we remove the right to speak our minds, there won't be any minds speaking.

[marciae]

Without conflict, and serious -deep- differences of opinion, there is no discussion.

Do we want a lively board where everyone has a voice -even those you don't want to hear, or do we want a nice, polite, peaceful graveyard?

If needed, I'll elaborate on this post, but I'm being serious -and your admin- when I say this.  If we remove the right to speak our minds, there won't be any minds speaking.

Apparently most want a polite, peaceful graveyard as that's where this board is right now - IF you take out this thread!!

[KayoticSewing]

Kayotic, I can't find you searching PayPal either, so apparently your email address there is different then here; so I'll need the info from you again.

I'll get you properly credited as soon as I receive it from you.

No worries, Dragonlady! I sent you an email just a second ago from my Paypal email id with all details you had asked for.

[Saashka]

Karent, well put!

[KayoticSewing]

Frankly, starting a thread listing the names of people who have left here will not bring them back.

karent, I started that thread to express my gratitude to the people whom I have learnt from as I haven't really decided if I will be subscribing and I didn't know if I would have access to this forum next month. So I might never have a chance to thank them ever. I very well know that many of the ppl I mentioned don't read this forum anymore. That thread was not to bring ppl back - just to say a simple thank you! Nothing to read between the lines.

[Tully]

"Overly-sensitive powder puffs..."

"Allow conversation that isn't illegal or threatening to occur without censorship just because there are snowflakes (sorry, I don't know of a better word) that don't want to know about people doing something else with their brains and energy than sew."

How do those statements reflect fact?

Snowflake is "A term used to describe extremist liberals that get offended by every statement and/or belief that doesn't exactly match their own. These individuals think they are just as "unique" as snowflakes, when really their feelings are just as fragile." Which sounds like a pretty derogatory label to me.

Those statements are opinion but reflect the facts of what is going on in our country right now.  People staying in bubbles with finding only what they want to use to support their own opinion instead of actively searching out both sides to a story, or those whom state anything that differs with their opinion is "fake news". 

As to "snowflakes", that term has been usurped by the alt-right to refer to what they assume are young alt-left unemployed men on their computers in their parents' basements.  Don't know if you meant your comment as an insult to "liberals" but if you read down in the Urban Dictionary where your definition is listed, there are other historical references to a "snowflake," including "referring to someone, usually the Alt-Right, Yiannopoulos, And Nazi Sympathizers (A.K.A. ARYANS), whose immense white fragility causes a meltdown when confronted with the most minute deviation from orthodox White Supremacy. They often cry bloody murder when expected to give the most modest expression of basic human decency.  This is all a continuation of how Snowflake historically refers to people who are against the abolition of slavery."

There is also a very sad description there of what the origin "snowflake" term was used for in WW2 Germany. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snowflake

However, I imagine karent was using the term for this definition also in the Urban Dictionary - "A hypersensitive, irrational person who can't stand to have their world views challenged, or be offended in any perceived or even slightest of ways; they will have any number of emotional reactions: impuning character and/or motives, blocking on social media, shouting, interrupting, threatening, assaulting, etc. They often live in an echo chamber of their own beliefs and surround themselves exclusively with people and opinions that agree with their own. This term is most often used to describe people left-leaning people, but can be applied both left and right wing people."
Sadly, many of us have felt this the last couple of years here, not only on political topics but also if someone makes a comment that seems to go against the adulation of whoever or whatever a particular thread is about.

Now that we've cleared up snowflakes (Erie, PA sure got inundated with them the past couple of days), back to the topic.

[lydia]

I, too, am on the fence.  Not because of the $35.00, but because of the lack of any excitement (or angst).  I can get my problems solved by looking at my plethora of sewing manuals and fitting instructions.  What I will miss are the interpersonal relationships I have made... Karent, who led me to Dr. Bronner's soap, to the point of telling me exactly where I could find this at Target.  She has sent me a VitaMix, and has given me countless pieces of wisdom concerning health.  Marciae, who has been a great email friend, we share the same birthday (one day apart), has sent me countless patterns and such, some which I have kept and some given to our ASG chapter.  These are the people who have made my hum-drum life quite a bit more exciting (?).  Let me add Bev, who keeps going and who posted a gorgeous photo of herself yesterday and VTMartha.  I had hoped to meet her when her DD was attending university about forty miles from me.  Unfortunately, this never happened. I can do without any 'slamming' of other personalities; each person is unique (took me quite a bit of life to realize this), but this is what made the SG unique.  Let me add the times I sent Breast Cancer Comfort Pillows to those in need.  I one time received a nasty PM concerning what (?).  Reported it to the Mods - end of story.  Am still pondering the future.  .....Lydia

[Judith]

Without conflict, and serious -deep- differences of opinion, there is no discussion.

Do we want a lively board where everyone has a voice -even those you don't want to hear, or do we want a nice, polite, peaceful graveyard?

If needed, I'll elaborate on this post, but I'm being serious -and your admin- when I say this.  If we remove the right to speak our minds, there won't be any minds speaking.

I am glad to read this response. There have been times when I wondered if I wanted to continue here, and I did stay away for a while, because I thought there appeared to be an interest, in sone instances, of looking to be offended. It's good to read that discussion will be encouraged. There was a time when the chatter section was lively and informative . I hope that happens again.

Judith

[DragonLady]

Without conflict, and serious -deep- differences of opinion, there is no discussion.

Do we want a lively board where everyone has a voice -even those you don't want to hear, or do we want a nice, polite, peaceful graveyard?

If needed, I'll elaborate on this post, but I'm being serious -and your admin- when I say this.  If we remove the right to speak our minds, there won't be any minds speaking.

I am glad to read this response. There have been times when I wondered if I wanted to continue here, and I did stay away for a while, because I thought there appeared to be an interest, in sone instances, of looking to be offended. It's good to read that discussion will be encouraged. There was a time when the chatter section was lively and informative . I hope that happens again.

Judith

I believe the health of a message board depends on very widely dissenting voices from every spectrum -which by necessity, means a few will hold view or say things no one else wants to hear.

But...in the wider world, the most inflexible, intolerant groups usually "win" in most situations.  Those who will accept no compromise are catered to, and those who are willing to compromise are forced to be the followers, even if that means the entirety of public opinion is swayed by a minority of less than 1%.


*Somewhere...I just read a great essay about this; talking about soft drinks in the USA and why almost every one of them is kosher.  Let me see if I can find it, for those of you who are interested.*

ETA: Here it is; although I see the author says "3 or 4%", which is probably more correct.

https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15

But, once everyone's minds have been changed -willingly or not- there's nothing to discuss any more, so a new conflict has to be found.  Otherwise, people get very bored, the lists of possible subjects run dry, everyone feels like they know everything about each other, and that breeds the desire to break away from the group.

To hold a community together, we need a lot of voices -with very different ideas, opinions, lifestyles, religions, techniques, etc.  and that means now and then someone will be offended by something someone else had to say.

[Linda75142]

Fortunately, I don't have to make a decision right now.  I sent a donation shortly after this version of the site came back early this year--thus I'm considered a paid member. (thank you for your hard work, DL.)  My feelings are that, yes, I have missed the amount of activity on this board since the big meltdown.  BUT I will give it a year to see how it progresses.  Only time will tell.

[Lyn-J]

karent No doubt you think you have made an adult and informed post. What you have actually done is made immature name-calling comments about those who don't like the way you post. You are trying, again, to turn this into your own agenda, in this case the posters that object to your inappropriate comments.

Railroading topics is what has been wrong with SG this year.

DragonLady, you are asking people to subscribe for $35.00, But it's all a bit vague as to what will be provided in return. Why such a short notice period? What, exactly happens on the 1st of January? You must have some idea by now. I see by your counter you have 74 subscribers surely this isn't sustainable?
You may like to checkout what they are saying on GOMI.

Retreating to a safe distance to watch the implosion.

[DeniseMW]

marciae I would like to know what you found so offensive in my reply. My point is that we should be able to have a civil discussion without putting people into categories or slapping labels on them that demean and thereby invalidate their opinions. If you believe calling someone a snowflake or a powder puff is the way to treat a fellow poster whose opinion you do not share, because someone on the boards you happen to like brought them up, then we must disagree on what constitutes polite discourse.

This isn't some sort of popularity contest.  But when it comes to opening the board up to political topics if Dragon Lady decides it's what she wants to do, we need to at least try and let folks voice their opinions without using insulting labels to shut them down.

Nuff said. I am getting off this thread because it's just stealing my joy.

[DragonLady]

DragonLady, you are asking people to subscribe for $35.00, But it's all a bit vague as to what will be provided in return. Why such a short notice period? What, exactly happens on the 1st of January? You must have some idea by now. I see by your counter you have 74 subscribers surely this isn't sustainable?
You may like to checkout what they are saying on GOMI.

SG is being provided in return.

No; my counter was for the number of people who voluntarily contributed; carrying everyone else along with them.

If only 74 people go forward from here, I will only need to provide hosting services and support for 74 people.  Which will be much, much easier than providing the same for a thousand people or more.

If we can't sustain it beyond that, it will be time to say goodbye.

[AnnetteB]

To hold a community together, we need a lot of voices -with very different ideas, opinions, lifestyles, religions, techniques, etc.  and that means now and then someone will be offended by something someone else had to say.

What a wonderful goal!!!

[Judith]

I had never heard of GOMI, so I googled it.

Why would anyone read that nonsense?

[helenkosings]

Howdy!  I'll try to be brief (not my strength.....).

• I like the idea of a subscription


• I think $35 is pretty reasonable


• I hope there's a way for SG to continue indefinitely, tho' I haven't been here much since the 'flood" - more my own forgetfulness than anything else


• I hope that we can find a way for folk who are more sensitive to interact with the more rough-and-tumble


• I will subscribe after I get paid again


• I am surprised at the dislike of PayPal. My experiences with them have been excellent - they caught 2 different cases of identity theft for me before I realized what was happening! True, I am in the US....


• I deeply appreciate the work that has been done so well and so long by Dragon Lady xxxooo


• It will be sad to lose those who choose not to subscribe


• I would like to start a scholarship fund for indigotiger. Please PM me if you would like to contribute.  Thank you


• I hope all are having a wonderful holiday season!

[Pipsy]

marciae I would like to know what you found so offensive in my reply. My point is that we should be able to have a civil discussion without putting people into categories or slapping labels on them that demean and thereby invalidate their opinions. If you believe calling someone a snowflake or a powder puff is the way to treat a fellow poster whose opinion you do not share, because someone on the boards you happen to like brought them up, then we must disagree on what constitutes polite discourse.

This isn't some sort of popularity contest.  But when it comes to opening the board up to political topics if Dragon Lady decides it's what she wants to do, we need to at least try and let folks voice their opinions without using insulting labels to shut them down.

Nuff said. I am getting off this thread because it's just stealing my joy.

Denise, I think the message you are referring to was someone making observations on the topic and concepts (not facts) being discussed  - the future of Stitchers Guild and you chose to to take the words used personally and defensively, distracting from discussion - something the author was trying to prevent and clearly stated.  So sorry to say - lighten up!

[mcgintie]

These are classic bullying tactics. Also known as gaslighting.

[Helen M]

What a shame this thread is descending into a similar situation to that of earlier this year.

Yes I had a bullying pm from someone who I then blocked but to be 'branded' a snowflake because I chose to block certain threads I find quite sad. I optied in, then out again, a few weeks ago to see what was going on in there, not a lot from what I saw. I read and participate in live current affairs radio shows in the UK but I choose not to do it on here. What is so wrong with that?

As for ridiculing the 'thank you thread' well I won't say what I wanted to, just that I've learned and/or been inspired from all of them so I'll add my thanks. 

[MaryV]

When will SG be closed to those of us who cannot or wish not to pay?  Date? 

MaryV

[Remnant]

Helen, i agree that I LOVE Kayotic's thoughtful thank you thread! It was kind-hearted and gracious. And it reminds me of the many lovely ladies who took time to share and patiently teach newbies. These ladies are terrific. Thank you for helping us thank them, whether they have left or still participate, and to voice our appreciation for the welcoming, accepting and encouraging voice they set here. I hope it encourages more of us to pick up the mantle and continue in the same vein.

On another note, I am one who has been mostly silent in the last few months, but I often read as time allows.

Mods: As an observer these last months, I agree with Lyn-J, that "railroading topics" by one or two, who oft post long posts and slyly (or not) insert personal attacks, without naming names, has caused hurt and has changed the tone of this space. Just because someone posts many words with passion, or might be educated beyond the average person, or is highly opinionated and knowledgable in a field or two, might have money to donate, doesn't give them the right to hold court as the final judge and jury of the intentions of others on SG. It's been a lop-sided mess for quite awhile and this thread's turn of discussion is a repetative theme.

As the years have waned, I have come to understand that there are many sewers who live in isolated areas here on SG, or perhaps live isolated lives due to health reasons. This forum has been an outlet to them, to me, for friendship and fellowship, for asking questions and sharing knowledge. These lovely ladies (and gentlemen) are to be valued and appreciated. They have a myriad of political, personal, religious, and social ideals. They form a beautiful rainbow here.

It saddens me when those who could choose to hold their tongue, show acceptance and grace, and overlook an area of disagreement, decides, instead, to be contentious. They choose to be crude and rude and only serve their own ego. What is accomplished by bullying the other into submission and withdrawal from participation? I think you can see the results as this forum no longer has the fun, loving, sharing, joyous inclusion of the old.

Those who have chosen to bow out, rather than continue on the painful path, have my utmost respect because it takes the bigger person to take the high road and walk away.

Mods, I have utmost respect for your difficult tasks. I could never be a moderator! I urge you to consider and take a fresh look. How do you want SG to be known going forward? As a haven for all or a platform for a few?

[Petlover]

I, too, am on the fence.  Not because of the $35.00, but because of the lack of any excitement (or angst).  I can get my problems solved by looking at my plethora of sewing manuals and fitting instructions.  What I will miss are the interpersonal relationships I have made... Karent, who led me to Dr. Bronner's soap, to the point of telling me exactly where I could find this at Target.  She has sent me a VitaMix, and has given me countless pieces of wisdom concerning health.  Marciae, who has been a great email friend, we share the same birthday (one day apart), has sent me countless patterns and such, some which I have kept and some given to our ASG chapter.  These are the people who have made my hum-drum life quite a bit more exciting (?).  Let me add Bev, who keeps going and who posted a gorgeous photo of herself yesterday and VTMartha.  I had hoped to meet her when her DD was attending university about forty miles from me.  Unfortunately, this never happened. I can do without any 'slamming' of other personalities; each person is unique (took me quite a bit of life to realize this), but this is what made the SG unique.  Let me add the times I sent Breast Cancer Comfort Pillows to those in need.  I one time received a nasty PM concerning what (?).  Reported it to the Mods - end of story.  Am still pondering the future.  .....Lydia

"Lack of excitement" in a nutshell, but the good kind not the chaos kind. Inspiration and depth of sewing knowledge from many, many people. That's what I miss.

I've been a member for about seven years but now with a new name that makes me look like a brand new member. I started this forum, the new one, with a new name. Granted, I missed all the chaos many speak about while moving from one country to another. This is a sewing forum so how can there be chaos and bad feelings around sewing? If it happened in Chatter or some of the off-topic forums - I suppose it's more likely to happen there - but if it does then surely mods should step in. An online forum should be a place for everyone and everyone should know they have to be respectful of everyone else. If it's a folder set up, the topic of which could deliberately incite bad feelings, then what do you expect! That bad feeling will carry over to other topic folders.

I'm not saying I won't join but I just made an international move and don't have quite all my furniture yet. Believe me, an international move that is self-funded costs a packet and I am only now getting to the point where I can begin sewing again.  Anyway, I want to see the old board back, with all the old members back - StyleArc Ann stands out more than most for me because I like StyleArc and she gave in-depth explanations of how she constructed her garments and gave wonderful pattern reviews - but all the others, too, such as Karen who is considering not joining. She has helped me no end when I had questions about sewing machines and overlockers. And where are Manuela and Pina?? I can tell many are no longer checking the board because I can post a question and wait three or four weeks for an answer!

Yes, I am grieving the way things used to be. I loved this forum but, boy, has it changed!