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Author Topic: So What Did You Wear Today & Why? 2  (Read 33173 times)
Liana
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« on: October 03, 2009, 02:44:57 PM »

Let's begin again here.  It's been so much fun to see what everyone's wearing, and how they're putting things together.   

The criticism is constructive, friendly and gentle; after all, we all want all of us to look our best!  Cool


Here's a link back to the original thread.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 02:47:37 PM by Liana » Logged

Robin
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2009, 04:37:48 PM »

Let's begin again here.  It's been so much fun to see what everyone's wearing, and how they're putting things together.    

The criticism is constructive, friendly and gentle; after all, we all want all of us to look our best!  Cool
I agree!
Here is what I wore today- what a lovely day, too!  DH took me down to the Sewing Expo in Virginia, and out for a late lunch afterwards.  It was warm, so I wore a rayon knit black skirt (8 gores) and a rayon knit top I sewed earlier this summer.  All of my cute shoes are in the Baltimore closet so I had to wear my Birkenstocks.
But hey, I wore a belt!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2009, 04:40:01 PM by Robin » Logged

vtmartha
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2009, 05:20:03 PM »

Robin, that looks really great!

Liana, I think it's our 'Swedishness' - not a bad thing at all.  Wink
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Lisanne
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2009, 03:16:37 AM »

Diana  -  I think the 4 body shape categories are very helpful but only as a starting point for working out what we need as individuals.

For example, Trinny & Susannah in their Shape Bible make very different suggestions for long-waisted pears and short waisted pears.

Long wasted pears get to wear layered tops with the upper layer shorter.  And to emphasise horizontal lines at the shoulder.  I know from my own experience as well as theirs, that these looks don't suit short waisted pears at all.

There was recently a discussion on another strand (sorry I can't remember which), in which people mentioned very detailed differences in length proportions (arms, legs, neck, as well as torso) which they had found affected what flatters them.

The discussion about A-line or tapered skirts that I mentioned was actually a discussion by pear shaped people.

So just take advice about what works for given body shapes as a useful inspiration for tying out what works for your specific proportions.
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RuthieK
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2009, 05:52:00 AM »

This is such a great thread, and I am sure I could improve my style a bit if I did photos and posted them here too.
It is a source of fascination and annoyance to me why sometimes I look slimmer and more capable and yet other times plumper and sloppier.
I like colour and accessories and prints and I think sometimes I look cluttered.

I recently had a session where I put my summer clothes away, moved things which needed hems, buttons etc out of the wardrobe and into the sewing room, put away summer sandals etc in the hope I can make the decision making easier in the mornings :-)
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2009, 07:31:51 AM »

There was recently a discussion on another strand (sorry I can't remember which), in which people mentioned very detailed differences in length proportions (arms, legs, neck, as well as torso) which they had found affected what flatters them.

The discussion about A-line or tapered skirts that I mentioned was actually a discussion by pear shaped people.

So just take advice about what works for given body shapes as a useful inspiration for tying out what works for your specific proportions.

Was the discussion on the Nancy Ericson pattern topic? I don't read that but seem to recall it on a rare occasion when I dropped in. Though not new, Peggy Sagers' book Dressed To Kill - Gently discusses proportions and again, though old now, the info on proportions is still accurate and helpful.

Cute outfit Robin, I hate it when I don't have the right shoes though!  Now how did you get through a sewing expo and done in time for lunch???  Shocked

My shirt I was embroidering to wear yesterday was a failure.  Perfect shirt, perfect color, perfect fit, perfect placement of the Cal logo, perfect stitchout... went to unhoop and found the bottom had wrapped up under the hoop but my machine didn't miss a stitch or make a hiccup and went right through all.  I have to unstitch or cut the shirt off just to remove the hoop.  In all the years of doing this that's the first time I've had that happen.  Oh well. My team failed me too.  Probably my fault  Grin   Today may be drizzly, have two soccer games and need to get out for a walk or run so exercise capris and a tank and sweatshirt. 
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2009, 08:07:52 AM »

Sequin tank over plain black tank that I bought, zebra skirt that I made, penny loafers.  I definitely prefer a-line skirts on me.  Tapered skirts require a bit more voluptuousness than I have.
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AnnRowley
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2009, 08:29:40 AM »

Still summer somewhere???   But definitely not here.
Bit of a cheat today, I've just finished this sweater and wore it to take photos this morning.
As it's so comfortable I've left it on until I need to get into my yoga gear a bit later. The label in the wool flannel trousers says 2001 - are they really that old? - time they got a bit more wear. Those sneakers again!

                  

I would encourage anyone to take a photo and post here - this is a really useful exercise.
And it's real people in real clothes... What could be better?

edited by Liana to fix the link.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 10:39:15 AM by Liana » Logged

marciae
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2009, 10:23:08 AM »

Today I have on my "finally" completed pant suit that I started for the Fall wardrobe project.  Going to brunch at the Sr Living with my Mom later.  I really need to take care of some red beets but that will have to wait until later today when I return to the yard work clothes!


[/img]
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Marcia
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2009, 11:33:31 AM »

I put on some white pants and a white t-shirt so I could take photos for a patternreview.  I just finished this wrap cardigan, which I plan to wear with grey.
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2009, 01:07:36 PM »

I know what you mean by "the yard clothes" Marcia - I just got out of mine helping DH repair and clean the gutters before all the leaves fall down.  They're already starting to change and fall.   You look great and put together in your new outfit.     Purple is a nice color on you Robin.  

 I'm on my way to a Sunday afternoon knitting refresher class at Yarn Paradise.   It's a mild 63 degrees here, and overcast so I pulled out my Loes Hinse short Zipper Jacket and Basic Pant ensemble.   This is a deep charcoal corded - like corduroy rayon/wool blend with tiny flecks of all sorts of colors that I pick up in different tops.     Those are my TNT Aerosoles cap toe flats I bought ten years ago.    I bought two pair of the black on black  Wink

« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 01:14:31 PM by Terri K » Logged

jodiwell
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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2009, 01:21:48 PM »

Ann, Summer is definately not coming back here in NW Washington state! Your new sweater is lovely!

Robin, what pattern did you use for your jersey top you wore yesterday? Love today's wrap!

Marcia, You must be glad you finished your outfit! It looks like it fits you perfectly!

Claudine, I love that skirt!

Terri, great pattern, great fabric...

Here's me today. This is baking, laundry and cleaning day. I have bread rising, an apple cake in the oven, two loads of laundry down and and a freshly scrubbed bathroom. The cooktop is next. These are my old workhorse Lee jeans (4 years old? I think it's been at least that long since they fit) and an old longsleeved tee. Not too much exciting except that they fit after years in storage. Oh, and my slippers are keeping my feet toasty in the cold weather. It was in the 30's this AM! Three weeks ago is was in the high 60's in the morning!




* Oct 3.jpg (57.49 KB, 454x926 - viewed 60 times.)
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BetsyV
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2009, 03:00:14 PM »

This is great fun. Not only do we see real clothes on real people, but we find out what the weather is all over the place! It was overcast and low 60'sF this morning; the sun is out now (5pm).

Robin I really like the motorcycle accessory behind you. Is it yours or a neighbor's? Oh, and great looking wrap
Ann I love that sweater. We don't have sweater weather here yet, at least not for me.
Marciae nice outfit and I think your 4-legged accessory is really cute too
Terri You look very put together for a Sunday afternoon, hope the knitting class was fun
Jodi your idea of a productive Sunday is about like mine. I didn't have one today, though.  Wink

Got a tripod together and figured out the self timer today, so here goes: Jalie scoop-neck tee from this summer out of a cotton jersey from EOS; new RTW jeans that are already too big on me; yardwork sneakers becuase I wasn't exactly sure what we were doing today.



how come I'm so blurry? Will have to work on that ...
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2009, 03:28:46 PM »

Some great outfits all round. Fall has hit here an it's been cold and dreary all week.
Today I was busy, so two outifits. Firstly church, I wore a khakish skirt which I made, a white long sleeve top and a black jacket. I love the jacket it has gorgeous ruffles and velvet ribbon detail. But I'm not convinced this outfit looked good. The light was also bad for photo.
Outfit 2 was for getting dirty, We took the kids apple picking with friends and it was muddy but fun. I wore light tan zip-off hiking pants and a big blue sweater and hiking boots. I actually shortened the pants last night and wore them for the first time. I've had them for at least 4 years, but have only worn the top part as shorts.

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Lisa
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2009, 03:43:47 PM »

Got a tripod together and figured out the self timer today, so here goes: Jalie scoop-neck tee from this summer out of a cotton jersey from EOS; new RTW jeans that are already too big on me; yardwork sneakers becuase I wasn't exactly sure what we were doing today.



how come I'm so blurry? Will have to work on that ...

Hi Betsy!

Nice sunday afternoon outfit.  It looks like the focal point is several feet in front of you...check out the leaf hinge on your table.  It looks like the focal point is along there!  Is your camera a self-focusing one? or do you get to establish the focus? 

Some cameras will do well with horizontal lines to focus on, others prefer more vertical lines.  You may want to try to establish the focus on the lines in the paneling behind you.  If your camera won't do vertical lines, try the hanging bracket over your head which has some "near horizontal" diagonal lines.  If you can establish the focus there (when you aren't in the picture), you may have better luck when you step into the frame w/ the timer. Smiley

HTH,

Lisa
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2009, 04:40:41 PM »

Everyone looks great!  Betsy, if I could figure out how to take blurry pictures, I might post one myself.  Wink
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Liana
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2009, 05:22:16 PM »

I have to agree that there are some great outfits posted today!  I'm just going to 'hit and run', so here's me.

Charcoal FSG#1960 Cardigan (with shoulder pads)  Grin , Pink Santa Monica Tee and Cream purchased casual pants, Pink shoes.  The pants are what I get when I buy 'longs' instead of regular length.  Still a little cropped looking, IMO.  Roll Eyes  The belt was a spur of the moment addition after hearing from my 'critique circle'  Grin and I like the belting, but I think it's a little high-contrast?

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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2009, 05:31:37 PM »

Martha! police  I am the fashion police here to demand a picture.
just kidding.  I know, I know, some of us don't like to be photographed.  What-ev-er dramaqueen Grin

LOLz... boy Lisa, you are a sharp one to figure out Betsy's camera!  Betsy, that is a cute top and yay for baggy jeans, eh.  Better than a new pair that has gotten inexplicably tighter.

JenSA, you are the picture of contented motherhood.  Picking apples, no less!  I like the skirt- it is interesting.  And I note that you have on nail polish, so you are an organized mother, too.   I always felt I deserved bonus points when my nails were manicured AND the home was under control.

Marciae, so great to see you!  That is just the sort of outfit I would expect to see you in.  You do jean jackets really well.  It fits beautifully and the buttons look cute from here.

TerriK, you look fab as usual.  You seem to take good care of your clothes and keep them forever.  Do you have a huge closet?  You must!  And how was your knitting class?  I am going to look into a beginning knitting class.  It is so much more portable than sewing and makes less mess.  And seeing everyone on this thread encourages me that I could learn to knit, too.  Liana's shrug on the last page comes to mind.  Or maybe a fringey scarf like Claudine would wear.
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2009, 05:36:04 PM »

One more thing, Jodi, looking good!  I do enjoy those domestic days, myself.  My jersey top was made from my TNT t-shirt pattern.  I rotated the dart to the neckline and gathered it.  It needs tweaking, I think- maybe a larger and/or lower neckline and more ease for fuller gathers.  

Karen, we ate a very, very late lunch; more like an early dinner.  But I did not linger too long at the Expo, I did not want to spend too much $$.

Betsy, that is DH's motorcycle.  He was taking full advantage of the glorious weather today.

Liana, you must have some loooong legs if the talls are almost too short.  They look good, though.
The whole outfit looks nice.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 05:40:49 PM by Robin » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2009, 06:33:16 PM »

JenSA, you are the picture of contented motherhood.  Picking apples, no less!  I like the skirt- it is interesting.  And I note that you have on nail polish, so you are an organized mother, too.   I always felt I deserved bonus points when my nails were manicured AND the home was under control.


Thanks Robin, the nail polish is a fun extra lately and I put it on at night once kiddies are safely in bed and cannot ruin things. The house...not so much under control, but we try don't we.
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BetsyV
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2009, 06:43:54 PM »

Lisa thanks for the tips. I may have pushed something after I focused on my dress form in that spot before I put me there. I will have to check!

Liana I like the belted look but agree the pale one might be too high contrast. Isn't that funny about pants. I need Talls to get a long enough rise, but then have to shorten them 6 or 8 inches. That's why I don't buy clothes anymore. I'd rather start from scratch.
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2009, 09:29:11 PM »

OH, I've so enjoyed looking in here all week, and today as well.    I can't begin to catch up with everything so I won't even try, but you all look good.  I have to say I love the sweater Ann, that one is on my list for after I accomplish a few other goals.  Liana, I like the belt but agree it might be a little too high contrast.  I'm still jealous of the long legs; I'm tall enough for longs, but my legs are really in between the regular length and the long.

Here's me today, better late than never.  We had a concert in the Berkshires.  Tee for around here, jacket for up there, where it was cooler.  I picked these because they just came out of my suitcase last night.  The skirt is loose enough that it spins around when I walk, but not so loose I want to rip out the side zipper to alter it.  I think I can adjust the darts to get me through a few more weeks.    I would have also said the jacket was getting loose and boxy, but it looks okay here except at the bust.  Does it need more room there?  A FBA?  It is purchased but I thought I would save it an alter it next spring.  Now I'm beginning to have doubts.  Well, it can't hurt to put it aside and decide later.  In the meantime it works for now.  I've also got black patent flats, green glass pendant, and a narrow black jade bracelet.  Didn't manage to get my nails done for the first time in months.


Perhaps I should laugh, hunch my shoulders and flap my arms more often.  Makes me look much thinner.
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Liana
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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2009, 09:34:10 PM »

Isn't that funny about pants. I need Talls to get a long enough rise, but then have to shorten them 6 or 8 inches. That's why I don't buy clothes anymore. I'd rather start from scratch.

Betsy, That is funny.  I can't wear Talls because the rise is way too long, but a few stores have both Talls and Longs, which are regular rise and longer legs.  I hardly ever buy pants either, for the same reason you don't.  I'd rather start from scratch and get it right than fiddle around altering, and there's never any hem allowance in purchased pants. Roll Eyes !

Mardel,  It's great to see you, and you look great!  Maybe we should all flap.  Grin  I love the skirt, and it's perfect with that jacket.  It doesn't look so terrible in the bust that I'd worry about it.  At least not now, and it's not distractingly tight at all, so maybe not then, either.  Wink
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sdBev
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2009, 10:26:57 PM »

…Here is what I wore today- what a lovely day, too!  …
Oh Robin your look lovely and even though your’re not particularly impressed with the shoes, I think they look OK.
…I would encourage anyone to take a photo and post here - this is a really useful exercise. And it's real people in real clothes... What could be better?...
AnnR:  I  heartshower that sweater.  You put together an elegant outfit.  Really, sometimes I wish to be you.  

I truly agree with the last thought.  Posting photos here is extremely useful; both in seeing yourself and seeing what real people wear and look like.  
…Here's me today. This is baking, laundry and cleaning day…
What I love here, Jodi, is that you have chosen appropriate clothing for the day's tasks and still look decent.  You’re not wearing hideous shoes; your clothing is not in shreds, and you don’t look like something the cat dragged in.  Yes, you are not at your very best. BUT you do look OK.
This is great fun. Not only do we see real clothes on real people, but we find out what the weather is all over the place…Got a tripod together and figured out the self timer today, so here goes: ...
Yeah Betsy!!!!!! It wasn’t so hard after all, was it?
***
JenSA:  Looks like the whole family is getting into the pics.  IMHO, that’s good!  I like family support!
***
Lisa  The high contrast looks good. For me, I prefer to avoid it.  I’m a “retiring” sort of person and wouldn’t do high contrast.  But it looks good on you.
***
Mardel I love pic2 with the black top.  It's really outstanding on you!!
**
Myself, no pics for today.  I was struggling to fit a pants pattern.  I mean I stared at the wrinkles and couldn't decided where they were pointing. I realized I had made so many changes over the 5 years I've been using this pattern that it had probably morphed into something, well something else.  I purchase Kwik Sew 3363, a basic woven trouser pattern; checked my measurements and cut a size large.  Although I am not a muslin devotee, I decided this was the perfect time to use one.  My fabric was a pant weight woven rayon.  Fabric was purchased many years ago and emerged from the first wash with innumerable pills.  At the time I thought I would never have a use for this fabric.  Today, it became a trouser muslin. With DH's help, I think we've created a good basic trouser.  I'm so excited.  I want to try this pattern (with alterations) in a "real" fabric, but tomorrow has already been committed to so many other projects.  anguish  I'll just suck it up and wait till Tuesday. 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2009, 10:44:12 PM by sdBev » Logged

BetsyV
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« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2009, 06:19:28 AM »

Mardel I love that skirt!

I won't bore anyone with my gym outfit this morning. No idea what I will wear after that. Will have to see what goes on my agenda while I am exercising. Could be getting dirty; could be finishing prepping my wool for my coat project which is "clean". Could be showing an apartment, which might be dirty if we decide to spend an hour picking up the workshop in that basement while we wait for prospective tenants to show up. Who knows?
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« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2009, 06:54:25 AM »

Great outfit, Mardel!  I love green.

Betsy, I always make my pants, too.  I hate making them because it's really not a very interesting project.  For me, the issue is stretch fabrics.  I hate them.  If I could find non-stretch trousers to buy that I like, I would happily pay quite a bit and/or exploit child labor to get them, but, alas, I must exploit my own labor.

Here's me today.  I was unsure about the proportions of the long sweater with a long skirt, so I was interested in seeing the photo.  I think it looks OK for a Monday.  I made the skirt.


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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2009, 07:02:35 AM »

I have been avoiding this topic!  Why, because I have been wearing things I DON'T LIKE and it's irritating me.  Also the lack of my own camera is irritating me.  Not that that should prevent me seeing you guys but the mind is a funny place.  I have returned, and much viewing pleasure has been my reward.  I'm wearing my brown jeans, a Burda blouse I made 2 summers ago, a tatty brown H&M sweater which hardly survived its first washing, and a tired and irritable look.  It's better you don't see me.

Elizabeth

ETA: Just a couple of things that grabbed me on my way through:  Liana, much better with the belt, in your experiment a few days ago.  I think you could also try that look with some heavy bracelets, I don't know why but it just popped into my mind that that would dress up that jacket and be a great chic casual country outfit.  Mardel, you just look awesome in black and colours.  Claudine, I don't love the proportions of the long sweater/long skirt.  Your legs look strangely short and your top very long. The scarf is essential.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 07:14:23 AM by ejvc » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2009, 10:19:05 AM »

I'm trying to get more wear out of my red, cream and beige striped pants, and the red/white sneakers too of course.  Since it is cooler I got to bring out a sweater my DH gave me years ago, it matches a pale blue one I wore before.  The red, white, and blue scarf is supposed to stay jauntily at the side, but it always slips down to center, so typical for me.

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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2009, 11:44:25 AM »



Today I expect to run to town for a few things, make phone calls for medical appointments and sew pants.  Worked dilligently with DH yesterday on a muslin.  Finally scooped out the back to get it to fit.  What I'm wearing today is specifically for checking the fit on existing pants.  I love these jeans and they look OK, not great but OK.  I didn't post the back, there are far too many wrinkles in the back and the crotch is just barely acceptable.  Having struggled yesterday with a trouser muslin, I know what I need to do to fix the jeans pattern.  No I'm not going to try to fix the existing jeans.  One of the fixes is a flat butt adjustment which I can't see how to do after the pants are sewn and top-stitched.   I think I'm going to change my top.  I don't care for these 2 yellows together and it is a little tight on me. I have canvas Mary Jane's own with socks.  But I'll probably change those when I leave the house.  It is raining today expected to continue off and on the next few days.  Prefer not to get my fabric shoes wet.  They just don't look as good after a good dousing.  As usual these look fine in the mirror, but the camera tells a different story.

Mardel  like the outfit.  it's cheerful.  I don't wear scarves other then around my neck before putting on my coat.  They never stay in place for me and end up being right in the way.  So I do things like dipping my nice scarf in the dish washing or worse in the bathroom.  It does look jaunty.

Claudine, I'm not feeling negative at all towards the proportions of your top and skirt.  Which surprises me because I usually agree with Elizabeth and think she's right on in most of her critiques.  I might chosen a dress boot instead of the shoes you have own.

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« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2009, 12:07:05 PM »

Claudine, I agree that long over long can be difficult to wear (I certainly couldn't do it!) but I really like it on your slender frame.  It looks very French!
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« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2009, 12:11:33 PM »

I took my picture this morning but rode in with DH rather than the bus and he was in a hurry to leave. I'll post later...

... But, Mardel, I want all of your clothes (and your joyous smile)! You look great in both the green and red outfits. The arm flapping, while a nice detail in your home, should probably remain in your home, though Smiley I have a jacket similar to your green and it is a good trusty almost worn out friend. I think your fit is fine for now, you are still morphing, you know.

Liana, I vote yes on the belts and bangles. I, too, would go with a darker shade on the belt, but it's definately the right accessory for the ensemble.

Bev, my monitor colors show as a cream top and beige jeans. And I didn't think the top was too tight but I'm not wearing it. There are some things that I feel so constricted in I want to scream but they look fine in the mirror.

Claudine, I think the length of the sweater would have been okay if not banded. I think that's what throws the visual off. And I like the idea of boots rather than the flats. The ensemble looks heavy, warm, cozy: sweater layered, denim skirt and the shoes seem too "light" for me. But then again, I am very (perhaps too) "formula" in my dress.

Last but not least. Poor Elizabeth (and I mean this sincerely)! I could feel your irritation right through the monitor and I had to laugh only because I think I know just how you feel! Come and play, whether you have pictures or not.

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Liana
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« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2009, 12:34:37 PM »

Mardel,  Love the red on you, and my scarves want to hang CF too.  That's what safety pins are for, you know.  Wink

Claudine,  I don't know what to think.  It's certainly acceptable, and I like the 2 tops you put together.  I wonder if the skirt were a darker color?  It's fine, but it's not "Claudine-wonderful".  Smiley

I have LOTS of bracelets, and in fact, they're my jewelry-of-choice most of the time, but right now they're not practical for me, so I'm leaving them in the drawer.  Yes, I have a whole bracelet drawer, and it's pretty full.  Roll Eyes Cool 

Here's me today, just a Simplicity knit top which has a band, but I decided to try belting it, and I think it might be a success.  Same olive Burda pants.
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« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2009, 01:38:32 PM »

Jodi, thanks for the support.

Also it's not that Claudine looks BAD, of course.  Far from it.  And experience shows she is far more fashionable than I am for sure (as is Gigi), so maybe it is the coming style to which my eyes are not yet attuned.

Bev, I like both the length and the fit of the yellow top.  The only place I see even a little stretching is on the bust, and aren't knit tops meant to stretch attractively over the bust?  Also thank you for the compliment on my "critiques"!  You know I spend my days writing academic critiques so it is hard to get out of the habit; it can be unattractive in real life though :-(

Liana, you have the most gorgeous va-va-voom about you with that belt.  Keep it!
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« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2009, 01:58:25 PM »

I'll be back ...
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« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2009, 06:00:28 PM »

Liana ~ I like it! The collar is a great frame.

Me before work (and after work ~ just got home, don't plan on changing until it's night time).

The top makes me happy. It's a gift from DMIL for the weight loss. I think it's from Costco, Light rayon/cotton blend and very soft and comfortable. It was very sweet of her. This is the 3rd of my 3 pairs of slacks in my rotation... Black Docker Metro's from 2003. I can't help it. These wear like LEAD. I will never toss these, no matter what I weigh. They fit beautifully, are comfortable... I will definately use these to figure out my crotch curve when I brave the 'bottom making'.



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