GRITS 2 (Girls Raised In The South)

[SewRusty]

So what is considered to be "the South"? I remember when I went to college at the northern part of my state they asked me if I was from the "South" (specifically Alabama for some reason), so apparently I have the requisite accent.

[Carolyn]

I think "south" is relative, depending on where you grew up.  I grew up in Alexandria, LA (central Louisiana) and we considered Shreveport north!  When I vacationed in Maine, they considered New Jersey the far south.

[SarahLouWho]

Carole, I will (knock on wood) be in Decatur at Columbia.  A Marietta group where I know of people could be nice indeed.  What kind of sewing do most of the ladies do?

[Terri K]

The south is anywhere below the Mason-Dixon line.    In the deep south, traditionally, where you were born is where "you're from".   

[nanflan]

Terri, that's the definition I grew up with. I'm from Kentucky, below the Mason-Dixon line, hence The South.

I later moved to Mobile AL, and apparently some people there believe The South only comprises the states that seceeded from the Union. Hence, I was a Yankee while in Lower Alabama. Never ran into that one any other place.  

[Carole]

Nan, you're posting from New Mexico and I grew up there.  I believe we can both claim to be from the South.  My claim is South(west), lol.  If I don't happen to want to be from the South, I claim to be a Southwesterner.  That's usually only when I want Mexican food.  And I sure envy you that!

[SewRusty]

Well, I'm "technically" south of the Mason-Dixon line, but I'm more like Carole--WAYYYYYYYYYY west of it.

[Carolyn]

That's funny, Nan.  There is actually one county in Alabama that never seceded from the Union.  I guess they are a northern county?  I think people from the deep south tend to narrow the definition of "south" just a bit.  However, south of the Mason-Dixon line is the definition I have always heard.

[SarahLouWho]

I agree with the Mason-Dixon line school of thought.  I think it's pretty much that way.  However, I was called a Yankee for being from Atlanta for a while... I thik the kids at my small-town high school believed in the Macon-Dixon line instead of the real thing.

[fzxdoc]

Shannon, I wish you all the best as you battle this sarcoma.  It's a tough disease, but with your indomitable spirit and lots of good wishes and prayers from family, friends, and your sewing family, all will hopefully be well.  I'll be thinking of you and hoping for all things good in your life for dozens and dozens of years to come.

Kathryn

[artistwhosews]

Shannon, I've been thinking of you and sending you good vibes for a quick recovery.

I don't think I'll make it to SewExpo this year 
I'm now single so must be careful with the $$$$.

Hellenne

[Alice in Bama]

Shannon, I've been thinking of you and sending you good vibes for a quick recovery.

I don't think I'll make it to SewExpo this year 
I'm now single so must be careful with the $$$$.

Hellenne

  What a bummer I was hopping to see you this year>   Could you come eat dinner with us on Friday night We are meeting at the Holiday Inn lobby at 6;30

[LyndaC]

Hellenne, you aren't alone in trying to cut back.   My husband lost his job a year ago.  My sister's husband lost his 18 months ago.  LOTS of folks are having it rough. 

But, of course, if you have a job, there is no recession.  I see people spending more than ever, Perhaps there are just fewer of us spending.   

[Alice in Bama]

That's funny, Nan.  There is actually one county in Alabama that never seceded from the Union.  I guess they are a northern county?  I think people from the deep south tend to narrow the definition of "south" just a bit.  However, south of the Mason-Dixon line is the definition I have always heard.

 YOU ARE RIGHT Carolyn the county was Winston County and I always been told that south is below the Mason-Dixion Line and East Tennessee did not seceded either I guess this is our HISTORY LESSON for the day. Also know the definition of Yankee and Damn Yankee's

A DAMN YANKIE IS ONE COMES TO THE SOUTH AND LIVES  

[Doris W. in TN]

Shannon - I'm sorry to read here about your health battle.    Hang in there.  You are in my thoughts and prayers.

[Carole]

Ladies, I hate to rain on everyone's parade this sunny morning but I'm going to the final remembrance of my very dearest friend in all the world.  We're calling it her "Final Soiree" because we were all great ballroom dancers.  I've spent the last few days making a video with wonderful 40's big band music and all her pictures.  I can't seem to stop watching it and I'm afraid I'm obsessing over it.  It seems to be my way of dealing with the grief.  She died of lung cancer, as did my DH exactly 14 months ago.  Why, oh why, did we all smoke back then?

[Carolyn]

I am so sorry to hear that, Carole.  What a sad time for you.  I'll be thinking about you.  Have a wonderful time at the soiree.  How long were you and your husband married?

[SarahLouWho]

So many, many prayerful things to consider right now... My thoughts are with you, Carole. It had to be hard to sort through pictures and songs, but I know the family and friends who see the video will be thankful you did...

On a much lighter note, I love that quote, Alice!  Damn Yankees are a funny bunch...  Have y'all experienced this phenomena of Yankees wanting to claim Southern heritage?  My boyfriend takes offense if I call him a Yankee, even if he WAS born in Indiana.  It cracks me up.

[NotKateHepburn]

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. How terribly sad.

Old Winston County of the 'Free State of Winston' is where my family is from. I say old because the part that was Western Winston back then became Cullman County later on. My daddy still lives there. They wanted to secede but never did. They wanted to remain neutral but were considered Tories (sympathizers). They weren't the only ones. Many of the Northern Counties in Alabama wanted to join East Tennessee in a group called Nicajack (a Cherokee name. Don't know what it means) 22 other Counties voted for Cooperation instead of Succession. Many families in the Northern Counties were from points North in Tennessee and Kentucky and were staunch Hill folk that didn't then, nor today, have any use for war or fighting for causes they didn't believe in.

All of my daddies family joined the 1st Alabama Calvary in the Union Army. Made for interesting school projects and when I lived in Georgia, a few fights.

There are two Souths, the one that is divided by the Mason-Dixon line and the old, deep South that considers parts of Tennessee the North.

Sorry for going on an on. I'm a student of  Ethnography in the field of Southern History and Culture, mostly oral tall tales and of Midwifery in the 1900's. This stuff fascinates me.

What doesn't fascinate me is this dern cold weather. I'm just about tired of it all. This time last year I had buds on my pear tree and my azaleas were greening up. I could go for some nice springy 70's weather right about now.

[Carolyn]

Thanks!  That was a very interesting history lesson.  Having lived in East Tenn for part of my adult life, I can see where the Hill folk were not interested in the war.  Do you have any books you can recommend on the subject?

There are so many cultures and groups in the south.  I think people not from the southeast just try to lump us all together.  I grew up in Louisiana which had so much diversity - cajun, creole, redbone, native american, etc.

[Lisa Laree]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm actually a Hoosier myself.....guess that makes me a 'D* Yankee', since I've been in Alabama nearly 30 years LOL...

[Alice in Bama]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm actually a Hoosier myself.....guess that makes me a 'D* Yankee', since I've been in Alabama nearly 30 years LOL...

  after 30 years You are  more southern than any think else One of my best friends was from New York [upperstate ] she said after 10 years NewYorkers told her she was   she w2as not one of them anymore and she never consider her self a rebel southerner'

[Alice in Bama]

Thanks!  That was a very interesting history lesson.  Having lived in East Tenn for part of my adult life, I can see where the Hill folk were not interested in the war.  Do you have any books you can recommend on the subject?

There are so many cultures and groups in the south.  I think people not from the southeast just try to lump us all together.  I grew up in Louisiana which had so much diversity - cajun, creole, redbone, native american, etc.

  Yes you are right I live in central Alabama all my life ,but my husband in was from Moblie those guys are a lot different then us, they Just are .
Can't  explaine it .

Yes we have alot of books try to get you some titles I had a real good book was a diary from a women living in Mississippi during the civil war was a school teacher for the children of Vicksburg she was from the north and wrote what see went through during the sedge but I can't find it right now . I my loan it out just do not remember who:)

[Carole]

Alice, is this where I shouldn't tell you that my great-grand-daddy fought in the Battle of Vicksburg----with the 5th Illinois?

[NotKateHepburn]

Loyalty and Loss: Alabama's Unionists in the Civil War and Reconstruction
Partisan Politics and Guerrilla Violence in East Tennessee, 1861-1867
Southerners in Blue: They Defied the Confederacy
A Blockaded Family - Life in Southern Alabama During the Civil War
The Civil War: A Narrative by Shelby Foote
Mountain Partisans: Guerrilla Warfare in the Southern Appalachians, 1861-1865

Add in some Civil war songs to round out the feelings of the soldiers and the woman left at home and I think this is a fairly even tale from both sides, without getting into the "We are right", "No we are" battle.

As we know the victors write the history so I'm not so inclined to read just those types, neither do I find great joy in reading about a romantic Tara like version of the other side.

Each book has bibliographies listed so you can expand as you wish.

Of course this is a tiny bit of a much larger history. I study these regions because that's where my family is from. I do read others but not knowing the lay of the land makes it slow going as I have to cross reference a lot to get the point.

BTW, the partisan part is not just the joined into parties political wording, it also implies a certain group of soldiers. Partisan Rangers were often unsigned soldiers who harried the other side. Travelling in small groups they were like the ghosts in stories. Rarely seen but seeing a lot. They stole supplies, laid booby traps, gathered information and laid trails to confuse the enemy. Strange breed of men.

[LyndaC]

I lived in Vicksburg two years and had great experiences there.   I don't think they know the Civil War is over. 

The last time I went back was about ten years ago, and legal gambling has ruined the city.  Outside of the huge prosperous casinos, the city is in disrepair, buildings not maintained, the only mall dangerous looking.  I saw drunks downtown in daylight, which never happened when I lived there.  I lived in Openwood Plantation, which is still about the only nice area, but it is also not being maintained.

This is not a pro or con or gambling, just observation.

[Carolyn]

Thanks NotKateHepburn.  I'll have to look into those books.  As Lincoln said in his second inaugural speech, men from both sides read the same Bible.  I think people often simplify the Civil War, or are too quick to judge the south.  I live in the Montgomery area, and we have come along way since Rosa Parks refused to sit at the back of the bus here.  However, we also have a long way to go.

Thank goodness for the Southern Poverty Law Center that I'm proud to say is based in Montgomery.  They are a watchdog for hate groups and focused on everyone from the KKK, to white supremacists, to other terrorist groups.  I am a southerner who is proud of the direction our region is going.

[Terri K]

I really enjoy reading Shelby Foote's Civil War series since he writes like he speaks.    I have the whole series of 9 volumes.    I have a very old book on the civil war that was given to me years ago by a UDC member who claimed it was too slanted towards the Yankees and she didn't want it in her library  LOL.    It's a huge book with lots of illustrations written late 1800s.

[Lisa Laree]

I read Bruce Catton's trilogy about the Army of the Potomac about 8 - 10 years ago...and a couple of times I literally put my head down and just sobbed over the wasted lives and the horror of the battles...but there were some interesting tidbits in it.  Seems the guy whose house was right on the battle lines at the first battle (..of Bull Run?  Oh, my history's getting rusty!) moved his whole family to be away from the battle.

Where did he move, you ask?  A little out of the way place called Appomattox...I seem to remember that the cease fire was actually signed in his living room.

If it was a fictional story, I'd've called that plot manipulation.  

[Alice in Bama]

Alice, is this where I shouldn't tell you that my great-grand-daddy fought in the Battle of Vicksburg----with the 5th Illinois?

  That's funny you can because no of my relatives where here yet they came over after the war. My husband start searching the Barrick when he found out they fought  for the north.He quit  but some of my family believes one of our ansesters on my mom-- dad side where related to Jefferson Davis but we could not get Prof of that one   

  The  only reason I know so much on this subject my husband seams to think we are still fighting it be Civil war buff. I do know the last major battle of the civil  war was  fought in south Alabama   there reenactment of it every year in April.

Kind a funny how these stories come down from other family members.   

[Alice in Bama]

I really enjoy reading Shelby Foote's Civil War series since he writes like he speaks.    I have the whole series of 9 volumes.   

  Terri right Shelby Foote is probably the best books on it . {civil war )  and Ken burns series on PBS is ex celllent too.

Is it funny the things we discuss on this Topic

 Lisa you are right about the waste that war brought. 

[NotKateHepburn]

a couple of times I literally put my head down and just sobbed over the wasted lives and the horror of the battles

I totally agree. I think we who can look at it from a distance can study and learn from the whole experience. But I also think we have to study that part of our history. If not we are doomed to repeat and all that.

As for not knowing the war is over, I can understand some of that. It wasn't so much the war that folks were so upset about, it was Reconstruction. It certainly wasn't like what we've done in recent history. Take for instance Germany, we fought them, destroyed their cities but went in and built it back up with not only money, but time and energy. Any person caught looting, hurting, or not treating the German population with respect had a higher power to answer to. Because you shouldn't punish the people for military and political actions.

Reconstruction in the South wasn't about building it back up then moving on. It was about humiliation, for the whole populace, because of military and political actions. By orders from the highest levels. It seems like a long time ago but if you look at it that my great great grandfather dealt with it the time line seems closer. My great grandmother was born in 1898 and I had second hand stories of battles, troubles and experiences that her Father and Uncles shared with her and wrote themselves, so personal history is a lot closer. Personal history has a long memory.

On a brighter note, Carnival season is over here. Mardi Gras was yesterday and it has been a wonderful year. They estimate over 400,000 people came and had fun. Mostly due to the Saints football team. It has been wonderful to see smiles on peoples faces. For a bit folks forgot the bigger troubles and just lived in the moment. It's amazing the difference a day makes. Yesterday we had beads everywhere, people drinking and laughing with tons of traffic. Today in contrast is quiet, the streets are clean and bare, everyone has settled into reg life. Almost like a switch was flicked.

[Terri K]

Is anyone going to the Tampa expo that started today?     

[Alice in Bama]

spring cleaning my sewing area     Any suggestions Please help  got to make room for the stuff I buy at this year expo !!

you know that fabric i need and the new sewing toys they have this year.

[LyndaC]

"buy at the Expo"  What lovely words.  Right along with "new sewing toys."