Author Topic: HOW? Dart Manipulation  (Read 5322 times)

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Versailles

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HOW? Dart Manipulation
« on: January 30, 2008, 10:51:27 AM »
first of all I am sorry about my bad english\: :-X
How do I draft a dart less sloper which fits exactly the measurement  I have?
and:
I have found this site: http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-toc-long.html
what do you think about the method which is mentioned  here http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-03.html
for making an Hip-Length Sloper?

 

Offline MINI

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2008, 02:30:27 PM »
I think the methods shown are very good. The older books from the 1940's give very thorough instructions that you won't find in most modern books.

But, I see a problem if you want to make a sloper without darts. You cannot get a close fit on a female body without darts.

Well, you can if you are using a knit fabric and want a sloper for making garments from very stretchy knits. But if you want to make fitted garments from a woven fabric then darts are necessary.

But, if you don't like the way darts look, they can be changed to princess seams or pleats to create shape for female curves.

Designers start with a sloper that has darts. This is to establish the fit. Then, the darts can be transformed into princess seams or other design elements that do the same things as darts, but look more interesting.  The instructions at your website will explain all this.

It takes some practice to get this right, but then you will be able to make anything you want :)!


Versailles

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2008, 03:36:00 PM »
OK.Thank you. ;D
I understand the darts issue but I have wondered how can I make a lycra shirt .How do I draft the sloper for garments which are made of a stretchy fabric?

and one more question:
How do I add this kind of dart:http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20633210819434a485f4oj3.jpg (which is replace the side seam angle)to my Hip-Length Sloper which was made by using  the instructions which are given here http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-03.html  (the site which is mentioned in theprevious messege)?

Versailles

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2008, 04:46:39 PM »
Please,someone?

Offline Liana

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2008, 05:10:33 PM »
Hi Versailles,

I think what you're asking is how to replace the darts on your hip-length sloper (2 vertical darts, one up and one down from the bust point, almost like a princess seam) with a single horizontal bust dart.   The page you reference from the Pepin book shows how to change to a single vertical bust dart if you scroll down toward the bottom of the page.  They're using a waistline seam to replace the hip dart.  The sloper you show with the horizontal dart is a waist-length sloper and so it shows no hip dart.

To change the upper dart to a horizontal, just draw a line where you want the dart, from side seam to bust point, cut along the line, open the pattern there and close it at the original dart.  Then redraw your new dart so it doesn't reach to the bust point but stops short of it.  As to the lower dart, you'll need it if you want a very close fit, or you can manipulate it so that it is actually an unstitched dart, putting shaping at the side seam instead if you prefer, or no shaping if you like a boxy silhouette.

I have never seen drafting directions for patterns using really stretchy fabrics.  When you say lycra fabric, do you mean really stretchy 4-way knit, or just a woven with some lycra added so it has a bit of stretch?  For the former, you may be able to get away with no darts by rotating the horizontal dart to the side seam, and even doing away with some or all of it altogether, depending on your figure.  For the latter, a regular pattern is generally used with perhaps some closer fitting so that the stretch properties of the fabric are used to a greater or lesser degree depending on whether you want a very close fit to use the lycra content for fitting, or a more normal fit to use the lycra for ease of motion.

I hope this helps a little.  :)

Versailles

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2008, 03:15:33 PM »
Hi Versailles,

I think what you're asking is how to replace the darts on your hip-length sloper (2 vertical darts, one up and one down from the bust point, almost like a princess seam) with a single horizontal bust dart.   The page you reference from the Pepin book shows how to change to a single vertical bust dart if you scroll down toward the bottom of the page.  They're using a waistline seam to replace the hip dart.  The sloper you show with the horizontal dart is a waist-length sloper and so it shows no hip dart.

To change the upper dart to a horizontal, just draw a line where you want the dart, from side seam to bust point, cut along the line, open the pattern there and close it at the original dart.  Then redraw your new dart so it doesn't reach to the bust point but stops short of it.  As to the lower dart, you'll need it if you want a very close fit, or you can manipulate it so that it is actually an unstitched dart, putting shaping at the side seam instead if you prefer, or no shaping if you like a boxy silhouette.

I have never seen drafting directions for patterns using really stretchy fabrics.  When you say lycra fabric, do you mean really stretchy 4-way knit, or just a woven with some lycra added so it has a bit of stretch?  For the former, you may be able to get away with no darts by rotating the horizontal dart to the side seam, and even doing away with some or all of it altogether, depending on your figure.  For the latter, a regular pattern is generally used with perhaps some closer fitting so that the stretch properties of the fabric are used to a greater or lesser degree depending on whether you want a very close fit to use the lycra content for fitting, or a more normal fit to use the lycra for ease of motion.

I hope this helps a little.  :)
OK.thank you[:
But,the darts issue is quite clear.I am confused about the silhouettes which dont represent the body figure.like the Coccon and boxy silhouette.I dont realy know how to create them.Do I need to eliminate all the darts?what about the side seam? what about the center front and back?

One more thing,the midriff.How do I draft skirt(for example)with a -*-shaped-*- midriff.a sharpened  middrif.
The two methods which are shown here-http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-10.html look mistaken because :
in the first method the two sharpened  lines are not equal!
in the seconed ,where the two sides of the midriff are sharpened  the center front becomes longer !
I dont get it.

And, what abou this kind of dart-http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20633210819434a485f4oj3.jpg (which is replace the side seam angle)
How do I add this kind of dart to my sloper?
(-------------------------- sorry about my bad! english------------------------)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 03:18:12 PM by Versailles »

Offline Marji

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2008, 03:30:29 PM »
Wow, Versailles, what you're asking is really fodder for a whole book.

The short answer is, Yes, for the boxy and cocoon silhouettes, sometimes the darts are removed, but sometimes there still is subtle shaping that is retained by rotating the dart shaping to seamlines or other design features like pleats, gathers, etc.

There are some excellent books out there on pattern drafting and flat pattern design. You might start with Donald MuCunn's book as it is readily available and written to be accessible - ie not a textbook.  


Offline Liana

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2008, 07:26:35 PM »
Versailles, 

I agree with Marji that what you're asking is really so detailed and complex that you'd probably do much better to find a book that would lead you through the process. 

If you've done a lot of sewing, you should be aware of the various pattern shapes that are generally used to make the silhouettes you're looking for.  That will help you a lot.  If you have access to Burda WOF magazines it can be instructive to look at the styles and then study the shapes of the pattern pieces shown in the layouts for those styles.  You can do this with any brand of pattern, but since you mentioned language, I thought perhaps Burda might be more available to you than others.

There's a lot of difference between a sloper that is made to your measurements, and is a basic, close-fitting garment, and a design which you might create starting with that sloper, and there are lots of things like unstitched darts or darts incorporated into seams that can make it a little hard to tell just how you should  go about creating a design by just looking at a finished garment.  That's where some experience helps, but it's not infallible either and sometimes you just have to decide what you think will work and try it.

I think the best thing for you to do is to work through the exercises in either the Pepin book you've found online, which is a good one, or some other pattern drafting book.  It's very important to do things step-by-step and in the correct order when doing pattern manipulation or drafting, and the best way to learn is to just do it.  You can use 1/4-sized patterns to practice, and you may be surprised by how clear things seem once you see it in front of you and do it yourself.

This isn't meant to put you off and ignore your questions, which are good ones, but rather comprehensive in their scope.   :)  Please don't hesitate to ask questions, and I hope someone here will be able to answer you on specific points.

Versailles

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2008, 05:45:56 PM »
I dont know what is the impression  I have left,but I undrstand from the responses that you think I have read the book cursorily.
No.
I have even summarize  it to word document  and read it cearfuly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have two Pattermaking boosks that I lent.
The first (which is ridiculous)named -Creting fashion (Betty Froster) .
The second is -Desigining apparel through the flat pattern-it frequently  opposing  the Pepin book.
 :-\

Offline Liana

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2008, 07:44:31 PM »
Versailles,

I am sure that you have read the book carefully.  The fact that you're finding differences in approach between various books tells me that you are reading them carefully, or you wouldn't notice.  This is the kind of subject that needs to be a hands-on experience, though.  I am wondering if you have tried making the various patterns and pattern changes that the books show.  I don't believe anyone can just read these kinds of books without doing the exercises, and understand how to get the results you want to achieve.  Perhaps you are practicing and trying things out.  Could you show us photos of what you're doing so that we can see what the problem might be?  I think that would make everything much clearer on both sides.  :)

It's very easy to post photos and links here, which can make it much easier for you to get the right answers to the questions you're asking.  I don't know how long you've been reading the board, but it has lots of neat features that you may want to try.  If you have any questions or need help with anything, just ask the Administrators or Moderators.  There are a couple of threads that may be of interest to you as you look around the site.  The "Are You New, Please Read This Thread First" is a good place to start, as is  Forum Decorum & FAQ and of course there's the ever-popular Sandbox where you can try out all the features, and which is a very easy place to get help or have questions answered.

Hope to hear from you soon.  :)


 

Versailles

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2008, 08:09:01 PM »
Versailles,

I am sure that you have read the book carefully.  The fact that you're finding differences in approach between various books tells me that you are reading them carefully, or you wouldn't notice.  This is the kind of subject that needs to be a hands-on experience, though.  I am wondering if you have tried making the various patterns and pattern changes that the books show.  I don't believe anyone can just read these kinds of books without doing the exercises, and understand how to get the results you want to achieve.  Perhaps you are practicing and trying things out.  Could you show us photos of what you're doing so that we can see what the problem might be?  I think that would make everything much clearer on both sides.  :)

It's very easy to post photos and links here, which can make it much easier for you to get the right answers to the questions you're asking.  I don't know how long you've been reading the board, but it has lots of neat features that you may want to try.  If you have any questions or need help with anything, just ask the Administrators or Moderators.  There are a couple of threads that may be of interest to you as you look around the site.  The "Are You New, Please Read This Thread First" is a good place to start, as is  Forum Decorum & FAQ and of course there's the ever-popular Sandbox where you can try out all the features, and which is a very easy place to get help or have questions answered.

Hope to hear from you soon.  :)


 
Ok.thank you[:
I will finish with the books summary and I will post photos.
again , thank you!
 :laugh:

Offline Katherine

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Re: HOW? Dart Manipulation
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2008, 10:34:07 PM »
There is only 1 English language book I'm aware of that covers the stetch block.  Most of the books I've seen rotate much of the bust dart to the armhole, making a loose t-shirt looking thing.  I'm guessing that's not what you are after.

My asusmption is you want one of those skin tight lycra knit things.  Metric Pattern Cutting by Winifred Aldrich has a draft for a stretch knit block, with various amounts of ease.  It's not great though, because it's one of those draft the front on top of the back & change it a bit.  That doesn't end up fitting the female body very well.  The back armhole needs to be longer than the front, even in a stretch knit, that's not the case with that type of draft.

I'm not sure what your end goal is.  It could be easier to find a basic commercial pattern & modify it to your final design.  Another possibility is to get a draping book & try draping your basic block.

Katherine

 

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