Fabric (& other goods) Sourced in China

[pamela]

This thread began as a part of the SWAP thread and has been moved to its own thread as it may have a larger audience than just those who are participating in the SWAP!  The material in red has been added by Lisa so that the beginning of the discussion will be at the beginning...  The discussion was begun by Julie of Timmel Fabrics, whose post has not been moved because it also contained material relevant to the ongoing SWAP discussions:  In pertinent part, Julie's post read as follows:

I was talking to a lady yesterday who has owned a home dec fabric store since 1988.  We were talking about the difficulty of getting fabrics, where they are being made now and she had some interesting information that you might like to know.
It is time to stash cottons,  she said that most of the fabric production is in China now  (something we are all becoming aware of) but they don't mill cotton at all.  Polyesters mostly.   At least for the home dec industry.   
She told me there are no mills in Canada now,  a few in the US because they don't have unions there so can keep the wages lower to keep costs down.  But they will be going soon too.
Waverly was just sold and she thinks it is a move prior to bankruptcy.  Something companies frequently do to avoid having bankruptcy on their own profile.   Let someone else take the fall.   At least that is what she fears, is that Waverley is going under.  And she said that is terrible because they were the most reputable company of all,  good quality fabrics and guarantees on their fabrics.

The fabric production in China has no quality measures.   It is the beginning of the industrial revolution there.   So they are going through what happened in England a few centuries ago.   Much of the fabric finishing is being done on the ships as they cross the ocean, no safety standards, no controls on what is being used.   Three fellows opened up a container of fabrics from China and died from the fumes that came off the fabrics.   This is tremendously scary stuff to hear.   

I would like to boycott such production but as a retailer, I really have no idea where my fabrics are coming from.  They go through so many middle men before they get to me,  that the trail is next to impossible to uncover.  Although I have been told that the majority are now being manufactured in the east.   Also, many of the mills are using prisoners as their cheap labour.   
The whole story sounds criminal.   

I am going to be checking into this further and if anyone finds something on the topic, please let me know.  I feel a moral responsibility here to be aware of what is going on, even if I don't like it.    Julie

Yea Julie!

Lisa

I know a cotton broker that goes to China a few times a year. He told me that I'd be surprised at what goes on.
Also that he could get me great buys. But I don't buy enough for all the fees involved.
Even tho DH would not agree with that.

E(by Lisa)TA: introductory material for newly split thread.  Thanks Pamela!

[girl_in_bleue]

Is there a thread for this topic here on SG? I poked around a little and couldn't find one. It's definitely something I'd like to keep reading about and discussing. I try to be an aware consumer but it's so difficult sometimes.

[Licarrit]

A friend's husband does QC for Bic pens, She said that everything in China is done by hand. There is virtually no mechanized labor. What this means is that in his case, he has to show 600 Chinese how to put together a pen as opposed to making sure a machine gets it right. The quality of life standards are incomprehensible to most of us also. We had some prominent Chinese doctors visiting our Med. center and they toured the neonatal ICU, at the end of the tour, one of them suggested that it would be much better to just make another baby. Our Docs didn't even know how to respond. At least in the states, we use prison labor also, just not for textile manufacturing. The world is becoming a smaller place but I don't think we'll understand each other better anytime soon.

[J Culshaw]

Stephanie,  this topic was touched on in the topic about Walmart's fabric or rather their getting rid of their fabric.
There must be mechanization in China because I was sent pictures of a mill in China and the looms were twice as wide as what we are used to.  I was told to expect much wider fabrics down the line. 
I know that one fabric made over in the east is made under good conditions.  These are the rayon batiks sold by Batik Butik. The owner goes to Bali twice a year to get her fabrics ordered.  The plant is a small family run business and she told the story of the production of these batiks on Creative Machine a few years ago.  It was impressive.   The owner treated his workers humanely and made sure they didn't work extra long hours, and they were fairly paid.    It is really nice to hear about a business like that when so many are just out to make a profit and nothing else.   
So support Batik Butik if you can,  a good business that is helping Bali and their rayons are lovely too.    Julie

[LindaF]

We had some prominent Chinese doctors visiting our Med. center and they toured the neonatal ICU, at the end of the tour, one of them suggested that it would be much better to just make another baby. Our Docs didn't even know how to respond. At least in the states, we use prison labor also, just not for textile manufacturing. The world is becoming a smaller place but I don't think we'll understand each other better anytime soon.

If you want to read more about this attitude, read this excellent book

It will open your eyes.  It has been two years since I read this book, but I don't think that China is mentioned.  Now I am sure that not everybody who lives in these countries have the same attitude.  Much like the attitude differences that exist here in the US are not shared by all too. But it does give you enlightenment.


Julie, About the fumes from the Chinese fabric - Last week I walked into a JoAnn's that I usually don't visit.  DH was with me.  When you walk in the door you are assaulted with this noxious smell that smells like gas.  DH commented on it, it was so bad.  The thing is this is a new store and it was like that also at the old store.  I don't know why.  It is the only JoAnn's where you can smell it.  It is also the JoAnn's that carries the biggest fabric collection. Almost every piece of fabric I buy goes to the laundry room before it gets stored in my sewing room.  The exception are the expensive ones that need special care. 

Also when I worked for a very famous quilting fabric company, they printed their stuff in China.  Why?  Because China had no environmental standards and therefore could use whatever chemicals they wanted in their dyes that resulted in a much brighter, vibrant color with almost no fading.   And, yes, I am stashing right now.  NO more moratorium for me.  Of course, I lasted about a day.
Back to the topic at hand,
Linda

[andib]

I have been lurking and feel like I need to comment re: the "developing east".  Re: prison labor, at least most of the people in prison here in the states have had a "fair " trial.  Many people are imprisioned in China for otherl reasons, and their judicial system is not one of a democracy like ours.

I buy silk in bulk to dye, and occassionally scarves that are obviously hand hemmed.  I do feel badly. I have a feeling about where they have come from. My DH does business in China, and it really put me off on the beautiful textiles he brought me after he told me about the "good" manufacturing facilities.

I think we need to somehow get involved in the political process if we expect our "global society" to treat people fairly.  I am  not political, so I really don't know how one would do this.  We also need to realize that polution "over there" floats "over here" with the wind and the currents!

If anyone has any experience how WE can help achieve change, I would love to hear it!

[Lisa]

Is there a thread for this topic here on SG? I poked around a little and couldn't find one. It's definitely something I'd like to keep reading about and discussing. I try to be an aware consumer but it's so difficult sometimes.

Stephanie, great idea!  Done.

Lisa

[J Culshaw]

Thanks Linda for the link. I have ordered the book and look forward to reading it  (of course I may not enjoy it). 
Julie

[girl_in_bleue]

Thanks Lisa!!

[Jennifer S.]

It is really hard not knowing where most fabric is manufactured. I contacted Telio fabrics, based out of Canada about some fabrics shown in the latest Vogue patterns magazine.  It sounds from their website that most of their fabric is from a variety of different countries.  I am really curious to hear from them.  I'll post information as soon as I hear from them.

I am no longer buying any fabric from Joann fabric- I agree that it is far too stinky( formaldehyde and whatever else that is added) and made in China. I just have really expensive taste- cottons and wools from England and many fabrics from Japan.  I am  seriously into the hoarding stage and buy only what I love.  One of the great things about Britex is that they post on the tag where the fabric is from.  I feel justified in spending $$$$ when I go there or other shops who post where the fabrics originated.

[nanners]

I have been lurking and feel like I need to comment re: the "developing east".  Re: prison labor, at least most of the people in prison here in the states have had a "fair " trial.  Many people are imprisioned in China for otherl reasons, and their judicial system is not one of a democracy like ours.

I buy silk in bulk to dye, and occassionally scarves that are obviously hand hemmed.  I do feel badly. I have a feeling about where they have come from. My DH does business in China, and it really put me off on the beautiful textiles he brought me after he told me about the "good" manufacturing facilities.

I think we need to somehow get involved in the political process if we expect our "global society" to treat people fairly.  I am  not political, so I really don't know how one would do this.  We also need to realize that polution "over there" floats "over here" with the wind and the currents!

If anyone has any experience how WE can help achieve change, I would love to hear it!

Yes people here at least have the expectation of a fair trial here. Also I am sure that it dependson the state but in NH prison labor is paid. It is lower than minimum wage but they are paid. We also have a prison shop where their wares are sold. The prisoners are learning crafts that are not not used so much such as chair caning, and furniture upholstery

[J Culshaw]

Keeping this sewing-related,   Sandra Betzina has become interested in the problem of human slavery as well.  Her brother and his wife are involved in Ethiopia and its social problems and he got Sandra interested as well.   She went over  a year ago and the result is a sewing school where she teaches young women to sew school uniforms.  Children can't go to school in Ethiopia unless they have a uniform, the cost of which is $100 and that is the average annual income for a family.  So Sandra thought if they could make the uniforms and fund raise as well, they could probably sell the uniforms much cheaper or give them away.    This would enable more children to go to school, and education is the key to getting out of poverty and subhuman conditiions.     She now goes there twice a year for a month, and is committed to this for 5 years to get the school established and get a small factory going.   
It is heartwarming to see how one person's love of sewing can benefit others the other side of the world, and not in the ways one would predict.    Julie

[nanners]

That is awesome Julie!

[J Culshaw]

I always had great respect for Sandra both as a teacher and as a person.  The more I get to know her,  the more I like that woman.   She is more than meets the eye, full of life and incredibly generous and kind.  Julie

[sewnow1004]

I had the good fortune of listening to Sandra talk about her desire to do this a couple of years back at Stonemountain in Berkeley. I too was impressed.

Re unfair working conditions, check this out http://www.thomasin.com/risen.html ; however, there are more interesting topics re fabric arts too

[J Culshaw]

Today, I passed a favourite haunt of mine, a used bookstore on my dog-walking route and he had a book in the window called Wild Swans  Three Daughters of China.    Funny how you find things on the same topic once you are open to it. 
It looks like an intereting read  - it is written by a woman who was born in China in 1952 and chronicles the life stories of her grandmother, mother and herself through China from 1929 to the present.   It should be an interesting book and perhaps I will come to understand China better.  I have a good friend from Shanghai and she imports fabrics from China for sale here,  so it will be good to get to know her world a little better.     

http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Swans-Three-Daughters-China/dp/0385425473

I posted a link to the book on Amazon if anyone else is interested.   Julie

[Kathleen Fasanella]

It is time to stash cottons,  she said that most of the fabric production is in China now  (something we are all becoming aware of) but they don't mill cotton at all.

Hi ladies (ltns). I'm no defender of China so I'll let most of what's been said lie because politically, I think my feelings are pretty transparent. However, this issue of suggesting we need to stash cotton doesn't follow. Coincidentally enough, I've recently been studying cotton from the dirt up for a series of posts, everything from politics to sustainability. Sounds absolutely thrilling, I know. Rather than there being a cotton shortage, we've got a worldwide glut thanks to legislation guaranteeing US cotton producers 72 cents a pound for cotton when the price on the open market ranges from 48 cents-53 cents a pound. With that nifty tax payer subsidized hand out, it's likely excess supplies will continue unabated. US cotton policies btw, are killing economic development in africa. Like I said, cotton picking politics is a really long story.

On to the matter at hand, not only does China have mills, they're buying 200% more cotton than we can even grow in the US in a year. LIkewise, purchasing by Chinese mills has doubled over the past five years so if anything, not only can they produce it, and are producing it, their rate of textile production has doubled in the past five years. In fact, China produces at least 30% of the world's total production of cotton textiles. I'll include an excerpt (tried to weed out the really boring parts). If you want my source, it's the latest market news summary dated feb 16, 2007 from the USDA agricultural marketing service. http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/mp_cn206.txt . 

So, I don't think the-lack-of-Chinese-mills argument is a *viable* excuse to stash anymore fabric than you already are .
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(Halfway down the page)
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The latest U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) cotton supply and demand estimates for 2006/07 projected a record foreign cotton mill use for the eighth consecutive season.  Over this period, foreign mill use had increased 42 million bales from 1998/99 to nearly 116.4 million this season. While U.S. cotton mill use had declined 5.4 million bales during the period, foreign mill use had expanded significantly to meet the global demand for cotton textile and apparel products.

In particular, China’s cotton mill use has been rising at remarkable rates and was projected at 50 million bales in 2006/07, nearly double the total of just 5 years ago.  Although China accounted for much of the gain in foreign mill use over the period, other foreign mill use had increased nearly 6 million bales to 66 million. China's share of total foreign mill use had grown considerably as well, rising from 30 percent in 2001/02 to an estimated 43 percent in 2006/07.
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(3/4's of the way down)
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China's Textile Exports Support Cotton Consumption Gains
Total U.S. cotton textile net imports grew by only an estimated 2 percent in calendar year 2006, to the equivalent of 17.4 million bales of cotton consumption by textile mills. China?s exports to the United States grew only one percent, to 4.1 million bales. However, China's net exports to all destinations rose 21 percent in calendar year 2006, for the second consecutive year. At 35 million bales, the mill use equivalence of China's net cotton textile exports equaled almost 30 percent of the world's entire cotton consumption.

[J Culshaw]

Perhaps the woman who told me that about cottons was referring to the home dec cottons that she buys.   She would be purchasing the chintzes and the cotton jacquards, plus cotton velvets.   
What is worrisome is the lack of controls over the use of chemicals and the fact that the Chinese mills won't have the same work regulations in place that we have come to take for granted.
Apparently many cotton mill workers in the west developed lung diseases from inhaled fibres in the workplace.  Add to that the chemicals used in the dyeing process, the bleaching of cottons, etc.  and you are dealing with a very toxic workplace. 
I think many of us are just beginning to realise how fortunate we are to live in the west, with our personal freedom protected,  with laws in place to protect our workplaces and homes,  incredible that much of the world doesn't have that.   Julie

[vtmartha]

 I've recently been studying cotton from the dirt up for a series of posts, everything from politics to sustainability. Sounds absolutely thrilling, I know. Rather than there being a cotton shortage, we've got a worldwide glut thanks to legislation guaranteeing US cotton producers 72 cents a pound for cotton when the price on the open market ranges from 48 cents-53 cents a pound. With that nifty tax payer subsidized hand out, it's likely excess supplies will continue unabated. US cotton policies btw, are killing economic development in africa. Like I said, cotton picking politics is a really long story.

Kathleen, I'm wondering whether any of your research in the cotton 'field' has shed any light on the role of the cotton industry in the US in supporting the ban on hemp production in this country.

Martha

[MaryBeth]

I'm not sure I can add to the direction of this thread (stashing cottons) but I've been researching textile mfg info and read last week (sorry, didn't save the link) that China is making a far lower profit on the textiles it exports (about 3%) than on any other exports (about 15%).   

While textiles are a large, rapid growth export item for China, I'm also reading that China is gearing up to export even more textiles in the coming year.  However valuation of the yuan is going to create problems for China's export endeavors

The government of South Africa will be supporting Textiles and Clothing in it's budgetary incentives according to the budget comments from Deloite and Touche.

India is also trying to become a major player in the textile export community by developing it's mostly small mills and applying for exemptions from VAT taxes as are textile processors in Pakistan.  The US based textile company, West Point Home, is establishing a new textile in Pakistan as well. 

There are movements toward reviving the Egyptian textile through franchising which infuses capital (from OxfordBusinessGroup.com)

The granting of licenses to Egyptian factories to produce foreign branded clothing also has benefits. Nike currently has some of its cotton wear produced in Egypt. Industry analysts say the business model they provide and the demand from domestic and foreign market has the potential to rejuvenate the Egyptian textile industry, which has been in decline in recent years due to a lack of investment.

Dubai, a part of the United Arab Emerits, is creating Dubai Textile City for duty free exports.

On the cotton front: drought in Australia is making cotton less accessable to mills.   The sourcing of cotton is shifting around and new areas will most likely seize the opportunity to enter the cotton market.  New York, India and Pakistan are the major sources for it but prices are increasing.  India's domestic cotton prices paid by it's own textile processors  have risen to match the prices of international sources

Drought has effected the US cotton growers as well and herbicide resistent strains of pigweed are threatening the southeastern cotton growers.

But the most enlightening (and a must read) article can be found here  The World Trade Organization is the locus for debates on US subsidies for cotton.  The US was forced to terminate a program whereby processors and mills were subsidized in buying US cotton when it was at a higher price than the rest of the world supplies.  At this moment there are thousands of cotton bales sitting in a warehouse in Memphis waiting to be sold to China when it runs out of its own cotton stash, the size of which is completely unknown to US.

So, it seems to me that there are many changes afoot in the textile market and cotton will most assuredly be increasing in price. 

It is hoped that the US government's own push towards converting farmlands from cotton to corn through ethanol based biofuel subsidies will not effect our stash of fabrics!!!  This could in itself be devasting to our cotton production.  Fortunately there have been grave reservations raised about the ability of corn-based ethanol to reduce US dependency on foreign oil. 

the Bush administration is directing much of its efforts toward developing ethanol from cellulosic sources.

The only mention of hemp as a biofuel source that I've found was in this editorial from the Wausau Daily Herald.  I'd love to hear more about hemp being considered...it is, after all, quite the weed.

[Remarian]

One place where fabric, sewing, and slavery combine is the US Commonwealth of the Mariana Islands, and the result is the "Made in the USA" label.  As far as I know, Jack Abramoff's and Tom Delay's charges don't cover their part in this situation, but they should.  And the situation continues today.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/moyersonamerica/print/marianasclass_print.html

The owners are reported to be Chinese.  The slaves are Chinese and sometimes other Asian workers who paid brokers to bring them to jobs in the US (which it is), where they found that they were already in debt to the "company store" for their transport, etc.

This is going on under the US flag, and it *is* a situation that the US Congress could stop if it believes that the public cares.  In 2000, the US Senate passed legislation to apply US labor standards there, but it died in the House. Please write to your Representatives.  And be careful about just *where* in the USA that label means when you go shopping.  This is not only shameful and immoral for the US; it will affect the wages we can get for our own jobs in a variety of industries, as corporations compete for our dollars as consumers.

[peter]

Lot's of interesting information here.  Thank you ladies.
Remarian, I just saw that program on my local PBS and thought about this thread too.  Very surprising stuff.

My 2 cents.  I think as long as there are people with money there will be quality fabrics to placate them.  Luckily, there are vendors grabbing the leftovers and selling them to us at reduced prices.  Trivia.  I read an article in the NYTimes recently about Toyota.  The Toyoda family started out making textile looms, changed the "d" to a "t" when they started making cars.  Who knew?

I recently read the book, Big Cotton, by Stephen Yafa.  Subtitle:  How A Hunble Fiber Created Fortunes, Wrecked Civilizations, and Put America on the Map.  I highly recommend it.  You can find new copies on amazon for $5. through the "new and used" link.

[Remarian]

Thanks, Peter.  I'll look for Big Cotton at the bookstore.  Didn't Gandhi lead a movement to revive handweaving in India, among other things,  to shift the working people's funds away from foreign-made goods? 

[peter]

Exactly, Remarian.  I'm going by memory and it's been a while since I read the book.  The British first discovered cotton textiles through trade in the east.  Cotton became all the rage in Europe and was much more expensive than wool.  This stuff was all being produced in India.  When the British empire colonized India they shipped all of India's raw cotton to their mills in Manchester and forced the Indians to purchase British woven clothing.  So part of Ghandi's protest movement promoted the spinning and weaving of cotton in all the rural villages.  He would spin on his charkha for two hours every morning. 

The idea that we've closed down so many of our factories and now rely on China and other developing nations is alarming.  In a generation we won't have anyone around who knows how to manufacture anything and we'll be completely dependent on others.  But what do I know?  Surely our political leaders know what's best for us folk.   

[peter]

Oh, and here's a fun link showing how to spin on a charkha.  I've always wanted to give it a try. 

http://www.markshep.com/nonviolence/Charkha.html
How to Spin Cotton on Mahatma Gandhi’s Spinning Wheel

[Elona]

Just an ag/environmental note:  I grew up on a farm in the middle of an immense cotton-growing area, and feel the need to mention that cotton requires unbelievably heavy irrigation.  In addition to altering the pH of the soil, this practice can make world-class changes in water supplies.  The disastrous reduction of the once-grand Aral Sea and Lake Baikal to relative puddles was due to a wrong-headed Russian effort to make cotton growth the main industry in these areas.  There are pictures here

http://waterwars.wordpress.com/aral-sea-2/

but they don't show the devastation at every level of the ecosystem.

[Remarian]

Good point, Elona.  My grade school classes were full of shining examples of where irrigation was "making the desert bloom" all around the world.  Although I'm getting on in years, it hasn't been very long geologically -- and yet many of those areas are full of salts now, unfit to grow anything.  As you point out, the water is gone, too.  Nowadays, when I hear of wonderful missionary or World Bank projects in other countries, I flinch and wonder how they will disrupt the culture, the economy, the government, the soil, and even the weather.

[J Culshaw]

Deviating from the topic of fabrics in China, but still related to the awareness of the global economy, I found this article about the real price of "cheap chic"  -  based on the subsistence wages of women in Bangladesh.

http://shopping.guardian.co.uk/clothes/story/0,,1864976,00.html

I know that many of my friends and acquaintances buy most of their clothes at the discount outlets,  price seems to drive the market.  But we benefit at a huge cost to people in other parts of the world.   I like this idea of fair trade being applied to clothing as well as coffee and other commodities we buy.     Julie

[QueenBee]

I know that many of my friends and acquaintances buy most of their clothes at the discount outlets,  price seems to drive the market.  But we benefit at a huge cost to people in other parts of the world.   I like this idea of fair trade being applied to clothing as well as coffee and other commodities we buy.     Julie

I agree Julie. Fair Trade, living wages, and sustainable agriculture are all ideals that should be strived for. With North America being a huge consumer of cheap goods, fabric related and otherwise, from China and other developing countries, we impact how they are applied.
The problem is that the bulk of us are unwilling to pay the monetary cost this would entail. Our minimum wage here in California just went up again, to I believe $7.50 hr (US), and our gas prices are high, in part due to more stringent clean air additives. The consumer is only willing to pay so much, so jobs are lost here, service and product quality drop; it's like a cycle that feeds on it's self. And more jobs get outsourced or lost to countries where workers are exploited.

The discount culture has created a discount world. I think the only real solution is for all of us to be willing to pay a little more, while buying a little less. Buy as much as you can of what you do buy from smaller, local companies. I try to work out from there. My main grocery is a smallish western US chain. It's prices are great, and it's employee owned, so they have decent benefits and everybody seems to be happy, and helpful, there.
When I do wind up online, which is seldom, I try to buy from smaller, boutique type businesses, like Julie's Timmel Fabrics, where my purchase is benefiting real people, not a corporate entity.

 Buy responsibly, and don't be too greedy. There will always be true bargains out there, but buying cheap crud because it's cheap still leaves you with crud.

I'm getting dizzy up here on the soap box, so I'll stop now.

Rene Marie

[Remarian]

This week's episode of NOW on PBS discusses the complex effects of government subsidies for American cotton growers, talking to farmers in west Texas and Burkina Faso, as well as an Oxfam representative and a congressman from Minnesota.  It is certainly complex.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/310/index.html

[J Culshaw]

On the subject of fair trade, I decided that I should at least buy fair trade coffee.   And found out it costs 2- 3 times the price of other coffee.   That's okay, I told everyone here to drink the pot dry and not to dump the leftovers down the sink.   Then I heard that you can buy fair trade tea,  and heard the price of $56 per pound! 
Now,  this makes me wonder  - that is about 8 times the price of the tea that I now buy.   I find it hard to believe that 8 times the amount is going to pay a fair wage to the workers.  I am suspicious that there is a middleman who is pocketing a big profit on this.   How does one know how much is getting to the workers and how much is being siphoned off in the process?   
I do realise that there has to be a profit made,  after all I am in business myself. 
But that kind of difference is difficult to understand.  I can comprehend 2 or 3 times the price, but this seems a little steep.   Julie

[MaryBeth]

This week's episode of NOW on PBS discusses the complex effects of government subsidies for American cotton growers, talking to farmers in west Texas and Burkina Faso, as well as an Oxfam representative and a congressman from Minnesota.  It is certainly complex.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/310/index.html

Great sources, thanks for pointing them out!

[Liana]

I buy tea, coffee and chocolate from Equal Exchange.  Their prices are very reasonable, and the producers get a fair price.  My church happens to be one of many that sell these products as a help to social justice, but they're also available in some retail markets, and online.  I am not a coffee drinker, but DH thinks it's very good, and I love the tea.  I think it's some of the best I have had.  The chocolate is great too, and they have other things I haven't personally tried.  NAYY, but I understand all about farmers selling a commodity at rock bottom prices, and seeing others reap the benefit. 

Here's their story.

[karent]

I have been buying organic fair trade coffees for some time now, from Green Mountain Coffee Roasters (online) mostly.  I now use one of those coffee makers that does one cup at a time, of coffee or tea, so it isn't wasted.  My office makes coffee by the pot, and we usually pick up the Millstone fair trade coffee by the pound when we get other "break room" stuff from the supermarket.  It isn't that much more expensive. There are a couple of sites I tend to look when shopping, so as to try to be as socially conscious as I can about what I'm buying.  I tend to look mostly at www.fairtradecertified.org, and they link you to all sorts of other sites.  I'm trying to do as several have said, not only buy what is responsible ecologically and socially (when possible) but avoid buying things I just plain don't need.  I'm certainly not perfect, but I'm trying.

I know the fair trade products are more expensive, but I try look at it another way.  I'm not starving, my dogs are better fed than most of the kids in the world.  Yes, paying eight times the price seems a lot when you look at the "eight."  Then, look at what these people are often earning as a wage.  Is eight times that unreasonable?  If I eat in a restaurant and a waitperson "waits" on me, I pay them for it.  If someone works on my heat pump, I pay for it.  I have a hard time consuming something knowing that I didn't pay a fair price for it.  How to ensure that the "fair price" goes to the worker and not a middle man?  I don't have a good answer for that one.  I guess the best we can do is try to be as cautious as we can about who we purchase from, try not to waste, and do what we can.  I don't think we all have the ability to buy the way we'd like, either through economic reasons or accessibility, but if we each just change one thing..... (I know it's cliche, but it works.)  K

[klao]

Buy responsibly, and don't be too greedy. There will always be true bargains out there, but buying cheap crud because it's cheap still leaves you with crud.

Rene Marie

I have to agree with that.  While today we can buy so many more things because they are cheap, they don't last, etc.  I need to work harder at buying quality made items which will last, even at the higher price.

Thanks everyone for the links to books, and websites, - so much useful information.

While in the airport last week I picked-up a book on this topic (trade with China, not just fabrics)!  It is called The Coming China Wars by Peter Navarro.  I have only read about a 4th of the book.  But, it is very interesting.  It talks about trade, knock-offs, labor issues, etc.  It has concerned be recently that it seems everyting I find in the stores is made in China.  I don't think it is good to be beholden to any one source, where ever it is.

And, about cotton.  It is also uses high quantities of chemicals (don't remember if it is both herbicides and pesticides), and depleats nutrients from the soil (which are then replaced by petroleum chemical based fertilizers).  In some areas in California, where cotton was grown for years, you now get major dust storms. 

Good topic - keep up the references!

Kathy