Author Topic: The future of SG  (Read 44312 times)

Offline Helen M

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2017, 11:09:18 PM »
I don't think I can get any UK magazine subscription for less than the equivalent of $35 so I'd be happy with that.
Sewing in Cheshire

Offline Towanda

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2017, 02:58:33 AM »
$35 is reasonable to me and I'm in

Offline mudcat

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2017, 03:12:55 AM »
$35 is OK with me too but quite honestly it would be at the upper end of what I would be willing to pay for a forum.



Offline sewingbox

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2017, 03:32:12 AM »
I'm good with $35 too even though I'm in Canada!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 03:33:54 AM by sewingbox »

Offline AnnetteB

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2017, 03:34:50 AM »
Dagmaro,

I agree with you as I live in Australia and I love to read what people from other parts of the world have to say - both sewing and other topics.

Fortunately I was travelling when SG had their instability problems and was not aware. I am home again now for a while and will be spending a lot of time checking out the posts on here.

I have sent DL donations in the past and had no trouble sending funds to her Button Shop so I've not tried the PayPal on this new host. It sounds as though it could be problematic so hopefully all will be sorted before I have to remit my $US35.
Annette
Queensland Australia

Offline Debbie S

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #75 on: December 21, 2017, 03:45:02 AM »
My thoughts on affiliations and ads... please don’t!  Some months ago, a friend encouraged me to follow sewers on Instagram and it was not long until page after page was full of ads. I realize that is how they support IG but you would be amazed at how followers pine for the “good ole days” of an ad free IG.  Those continuous ads took the enjoyment out of IG for me. Just my two cents worth!

Just to clarify...I am not talking about the ads at the bottom of the SG pages, I really like those as they provide a like to sellers I choose to support.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 03:56:56 AM by Debbie S »

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #76 on: December 21, 2017, 03:56:08 AM »
My thoughts on affiliations and ads... please don’t!  Some months ago, a friend encouraged me to follow sewers on Instagram and it was not long until page after page was full of ads. I realize that is how they support IG but you would be amazed at how followers pine for the “good ole days” of an ad free IG.  Those continuous ads took the enjoyment out of IG for me. Just my two cents worth!

(shakes head)

I don't like that, either.  The ads on the footer and in the news scroller are fine for me, but when a page has ads running up and down both sides, little movies that autoplay, ads that block out the page 'til you find the "close" button (if there is one), etc...they make me nuts, and make never want to visit those pages again.

Back when the forum first began "link farms" were a popular fund raising tactic, but the mods and I all agreed right away not to go there. It's messy and ugly, and whatever revenues they bring is quickly offset by the bottles of aspirin required to combat the headaches they cause.
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Offline Debbie S

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #77 on: December 21, 2017, 04:05:39 AM »

Just to clarify...I am not talking about the ads at the bottom of the SG pages, I really like those as they provide a link to sellers I choose to support.

DL, looks like I was clarifying my post while you were posting. The ads you speak of are exactly what I was talking about!

Offline KarenDee

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #78 on: December 21, 2017, 04:06:04 AM »
I am also good with the fee of $35, annually. I think being specific like this is helpful to those making the decision.

Karendee

Offline Lyn-J

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #79 on: December 21, 2017, 08:08:10 AM »
The maths
$35 US = £26.50 Sterling
Subscription for Sew Today (UK vogue patterns Mag) £37.50

In SG's heyday it would have been worth it for me, but sadly not now.

I know there are a lot of members from outside of America and I do enjoy this aspect of SG.

I feel that many of good contributors will be lost as they can't/won't pay.

If SG is subscription only, how will it gain new members?

Offline Debbie S

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #80 on: December 21, 2017, 12:47:35 PM »
Wondering if DL will offer an option of a monthly or quarterly payment plan which might make it financially easier for members.

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #81 on: December 21, 2017, 02:27:50 PM »
I feel that many of good contributors will be lost as they can't/won't pay.

If SG is subscription only, how will it gain new members?


For me, it's pretty simple: return to a functioning, stable platform so the members we have are enjoying the experience more.  I sincerely believe our issues are all server-side, and moving to another hosting company will be a giant step toward fixing them.  We need to find the cause of the  "forbidden" errors, fix our attachment directory so we can all upload pictures again, etc. 

We can work on attracting a more active membership once the board is able to handle the traffic again. 

Quote
Wondering if DL will offer an option of a monthly or quarterly payment plan which might make it financially easier for members.

I'm not a fan of multiple recurring payments.  I *might* offer a six month plan, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Again $35.00 per year is less than the price of a spool of thread every week.  The value for the money though, is many magnitudes greater.  The accumulated knowledge alone is worth a warehouse of thread, and the comraderie and member support is worth far more even then that.


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Offline karent

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #82 on: December 21, 2017, 03:02:44 PM »
I remember when the subject of subscription was offered up a few years ago, my opinion was that it was a good move then, and I still feel that way.  I know I don't participate here as much as I used to, but I still read and I would be fine with a subscription.  I actually have tried to send regular donations along the way, and just sent one yesterday as it popped up on my calendar (how I remember things..)  I know at that time there was a steady stream of people saying they didn't want anything to change, or didn't want to pay, but there has also been (if you read carefully) a steady commentary by DL about how it isn't sustainable.  My feeling is that, had we gone to subscription three or four years ago, the blip a year ago might have been more manageable, or even nonexistent if we had been able to move to a more stable platform sooner.  I also think being a subscription service would have made it easier to keep out the bots, trolls and other intentional intruders that have caused problems off and on.  I think the Seventh Circle would have never been necessary if the intentional disrupters weren't here, as running them off seems to have allowed the Seventh Circle to pretty much die. 

I agree with no ads.  Frankly, when I am in a site that does that, I turn on the adblocker so they don't impact me.  The few advertisers that are listed along the bottom have been there a long time, and if they aren't generating enough to help the site thus far, I don't see why anyone would think they will in the future.  I have one of the SG mugs from CafePress, I wonder how many others actually do, and really it likely only generated a dollar or less for SG.  I have also purchased buttons from Your Button Shop, ditto.  None of these ideas is anything that would generate enough $ on a sustained basis to keep the site running, IMHO. 

I think it is natural that people don't want change, and they sure don't want to pay for something they've been getting free.  Reality is that not much is free anymore, and it is not only unfair but unkind to expect someone else to pick up the cost and the work at their expense.  It not only annoys me that DL and the mods do so much at their expense, both time and money, but I have to admit it has annoyed me to no end when I've been attacked by someone I'm certain is not contributing to the site when I feel I have been pretty fair with my donations.  I think DL should just make the rules and see if it sinks or swims.  I know that sounds cold, but really, this conversation has come up over and over, and usually people only respond when pressed, and even then only a handful respond.

What if there were a way to keep part of the site free, like the SWAP threads?  Those seem to generate new members more than any other threads, best I can tell, and you could put a flag at the top that says something like "like what you are reading?  Become a subscriber to view the rest of the threads."  It works for the NYT, the Guardian, the Washington Post and all the rest.  I also wonder is there a log somewhere in the archives of the emails of previous members who have not come back?  Would it be awful to, once the site is more stable and has membership control, to send out just one email to previous members announcing that SG is now a stable subscription site, and you can have a free 24 hour guest subscription to read again?  There are bound to be ways to try to bring back readers, but that can't be done while the site is unstable and struggling.  The only way to make it more enticing is to front the $ to fix it up, just like trying to sell a house.  Just my humble opinion, but I'm here for the long haul.  K

Edited to fix some bad punctuation.  Yeah, I know, there is still plenty...  K
And edited again to fix typos.  Caffeine deficiency.  K
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 03:10:09 PM by karent »

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #83 on: December 21, 2017, 03:31:21 PM »

Thank-you, Karent, for a very well worded post.

You've hit the nail on the head in many ways, and you've also given me some things to think over.  I believe you're right when you say I should set the rules, then just see if she sinks or swims. 

After all, if SG is truly of such little real value, as so many keep telling me, then why are any of us here?

Beyond that, yes, my plan currently includes letting SWAP continue to be free and viewable by all, so as to minimize the disruption.  I know all of this is coming at a bad time, but all I can do is try to guide it in ways that will be as smooth as possible.


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Offline sewsy

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #84 on: December 21, 2017, 04:34:56 PM »


I think it is natural that people don't want change, and they sure don't want to pay for something they've been getting free.  Reality is that not much is free anymore, and it is not only unfair but unkind to expect someone else to pick up the cost and the work at their expense.  It not only annoys me that DL and the mods do so much at their expense, both time and money,...

Well put, Karen. I totally agree.

Offline Diane in WV

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #85 on: December 21, 2017, 04:56:26 PM »
Something like Cafepress is another site called Custom Ink. Custom Ink has easy to use tools that allow a user to design right on their website, without using any external programs, needing to import artwork, or needing any particularly special skills. They even offer some help for free.

Here is information on their fundraising functionality

Look what can be done in a couple of minutes using only the simple tools and graphics on their site: click for larger image

At any rate, Custom Ink could be an easier option than Cafe Press if you wanted to pursue it as a fundraiser sometime.

fixed typo
Normally, I do not like to wear t shirts with slogans, but this one I would wear anywhere! Please dragon lady do this shirt please please.
Let's talk about math

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #86 on: December 21, 2017, 05:09:30 PM »
Something like Cafepress is another site called Custom Ink. Custom Ink has easy to use tools that allow a user to design right on their website, without using any external programs, needing to import artwork, or needing any particularly special skills. They even offer some help for free.

Here is information on their fundraising functionality

Look what can be done in a couple of minutes using only the simple tools and graphics on their site: click for larger image

At any rate, Custom Ink could be an easier option than Cafe Press if you wanted to pursue it as a fundraiser sometime.

fixed typo
Normally, I do not like to wear t shirts with slogans, but this one I would wear anywhere! Please dragon lady do this shirt please please.

lol

I'll look into it, okay?

I do make t-shirts for Second Life, so next time I have time to do that, I'll see about making a graphic for a real life version.

ETA: But if I do, it will only be for FUN. I'm really not interested in spending hours of time trying to learn the POD business -at least not while I have so many issues that need to be addressed first.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 05:20:46 PM by DragonLady »
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Offline Judith

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #87 on: December 21, 2017, 05:24:57 PM »
Sewing is a hobby that costs money, whether a little or a lot. The subscription model will add less tha $3/month to that hobby. I cannot see how that could be a hardship. Just buy a little less of something. Now please don’t lecture me on hardships.  All I’m suggesting is that, if you buy fabric, thread, patterns or scissors, then $35 /year cannot be a big deal

The only hesitation I have is that this $35 will recur every year around Christmas time, which is when many of us might think twice about non essential expenses.  I wonder if making the first year 14 months would make a difference to the first set of renewals.

As to selling tshirts, advertising, or monthly payment plans, surely those things would increase both expenses and, more to the point, time commitment?

Judith
People are generally as happy as they allow themselves to be. Abraham Lincoln

Offline Diane in WV

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #88 on: December 21, 2017, 05:44:24 PM »
Something like Cafepress is another site called Custom Ink. Custom Ink has easy to use tools that allow a user to design right on their website, without using any external programs, needing to import artwork, or needing any particularly special skills. They even offer some help for free.

Here is information on their fundraising functionality

Look what can be done in a couple of minutes using only the simple tools and graphics on their site: click for larger image

At any rate, Custom Ink could be an easier option than Cafe Press if you wanted to pursue it as a fundraiser sometime.

fixed typo
Normally, I do not like to wear t shirts with slogans, but this one I would wear anywhere! Please dragon lady do this shirt please please.

lol

I'll look into it, okay?

I do make t-shirts for Second Life, so next time I have time to do that, I'll see about making a graphic for a real life version.

ETA: But if I do, it will only be for FUN. I'm really not interested in spending hours of time trying to learn the POD business -at least not while I have so many issues that need to be addressed first.
Would it be like the one above, I looked at the site, and some of the t shirt slogans just don't do it like THAT one does.

   Many many years ago, over twenty, I went to a MS thing in Vermont, and one of the doctors had this t shirt, that I have been searching for off and on with zero results. Basically, it was a brain, with wires or lines all over the place, and said something to the effect of This is my brain with MS. Not those words, but something like it. The Best I've been able to do , and it doesn't come near it, was taking a embroidery design of a brain, and sewing left over threads all over it.  Sorry for way off topic, but that shirt brought back memories.
  I do have shirts with slogans that I got, did not buy, I only wear them around the house, THAT one, I'd wear anywhere!
Let's talk about math

Offline Diane in WV

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #89 on: December 21, 2017, 05:47:45 PM »
Sewing is a hobby that costs money, whether a little or a lot. The subscription model will add less tha $3/month to that hobby. I cannot see how that could be a hardship. Just buy a little less of something. Now please don’t lecture me on hardships.  All I’m suggesting is that, if you buy fabric, thread, patterns or scissors, then $35 /year cannot be a big deal

The only hesitation I have is that this $35 will recur every year around Christmas time, which is when many of us might think twice about non essential expenses.  I wonder if making the first year 14 months would make a difference to the first set of renewals.

As to selling tshirts, advertising, or monthly payment plans, surely those things would increase both expenses and, more to the point, time commitment?

Judith
  Maybe start the money thing in a different month? And maybe for extra money , include a t shirt? Or farm out the idea so Dragon lady doesn't have LOADS of t shirts at her non factory house. LOL
Let's talk about math

Offline Diane in WV

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #90 on: December 21, 2017, 05:54:15 PM »


I'll look into it, okay?

I do make t-shirts for Second Life, so next time I have time to do that, I'll see about making a graphic for a real life version.

ETA: But if I do, it will only be for FUN. I'm really not interested in spending hours of time trying to learn the POD business -at least not while I have so many issues that need to be addressed first.
I like to look at some buildings in Second Life, but I can only do that by downloading it from you tube to watch later, I am very limited in bytes, right now, I have used them all up, so computer is slow. That's why I have never joined to see your's or anyone else's. I also ignore all those sewing classes, like Craftsy, not on my internet is that feasible. Artisansquare comes in better than most as it does not have pop up videos, that drain my time without me being in control. It's bad enough as it is, I am not complaining, just stating the fact that those pop up videos are not just anoying, but actually destroy what little bytes I'm allowed.
Let's talk about math

Offline karent

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #91 on: December 21, 2017, 06:25:16 PM »
I think asking DL to do fundraising is ridiculous, that is why the subscription.  If anyone here wanted to generate a t-shirt, coffee mug, whatnot, from one of the sites that do that, and designate the funds to go to SG/Your Button Shop, I'm sure it can be done.  I don't hear anyone offering that, but rather offering ideas for DL to spend her time to do so.  Let's either take ownership of this site as members, or don't, but there doesn't seem to be a middle road at this point.  MHO only.  K

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #92 on: December 21, 2017, 06:31:19 PM »
Quote
I like to look at some buildings in Second Life, but I can only do that by downloading it from you tube to watch later, I am very limited in bytes, right now, I have used them all up, so computer is slow. That's why I have never joined to see your's or anyone else's. I also ignore all those sewing classes, like Craftsy, not on my internet is that feasible. Artisansquare comes in better than most as it does not have pop up videos, that drain my time without me being in control. It's bad enough as it is, I am not complaining, just stating the fact that those pop up videos are not just anoying, but actually destroy what little bytes I'm allowed.

Oh, I understand, perfectly!  Anyone on a metered connection will have trouble with those popup videos, and SL is almost right out.

I have a lot of friends there who use an app on their phones so they can login to chat, but they're not even able to move around -they're just statues to the rest of us in-world.
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Offline Elephun

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #93 on: December 21, 2017, 07:36:54 PM »
I certainly am not asking DL to fundraise!  ::)

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #94 on: December 21, 2017, 09:09:37 PM »
Let's not bicker, okay?

I know these topics -subjects- can be emotional, but let's all keep our cool.
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Offline Saashka

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #95 on: December 21, 2017, 09:14:47 PM »
I'm planning to subscribe. This has been my favorite sewing forum since its inception.

Offline mudcat

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #96 on: December 22, 2017, 12:27:25 AM »
Beyond that, yes, my plan currently includes letting SWAP continue to be free and viewable by all, so as to minimize the disruption.  I know all of this is coming at a bad time, but all I can do is try to guide it in ways that will be as smooth as possible.

Can you confirm that you mean free to post and viewable for SWAP so both subscribers and non subscribers can participate?



Offline sdBev

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #97 on: December 22, 2017, 01:18:38 AM »
I'm planning to subscribe. This has been my favorite sewing forum since its inception.
Me too!  And yes my favorite site since  I stumbled across it!
sdBev
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Offline warpjr1965

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #98 on: December 22, 2017, 02:02:48 AM »
Hi all,

I adore SWAP, I look forward to it every year. I really enjoy this forum, and all the people I've met both virtually and IRL. I would seriously miss it if it were to go away.

Planning to subscribe. :)
Wendy

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #99 on: December 22, 2017, 02:53:40 AM »
Beyond that, yes, my plan currently includes letting SWAP continue to be free and viewable by all, so as to minimize the disruption.  I know all of this is coming at a bad time, but all I can do is try to guide it in ways that will be as smooth as possible.

Can you confirm that you mean free to post and viewable for SWAP so both subscribers and non subscribers can participate?

<knocks on wood desktop>

That is the plan at this time,  for this current SWAP. 
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Offline Lessalt

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #100 on: December 22, 2017, 05:24:08 AM »
Paid subscription yes, $35 reasonable. No on Tshirts and mugs. I don't mind the current ads.

Offline bessiecrocker

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #101 on: December 22, 2017, 11:07:51 AM »
DL, will you explain what will/might happen with SG classic and the re-loaded SG? Will these forums still be accessible without paid access? (There is so much stored knowledge in the archives, don't want it to be lost or disappear into the ether.)

I am ok with paid subscription (although I find it a pity. The web is obviously going in that direction in future. Probably inevitable.) I am another who has been frustrated about donating, I don't have a checking account, hate paypal and transfering funds from a non-US bank is a hassle. Credit card payment would be best for me. Or include a bank IBAN number and account no. for direct international payments.

I would suggest setting the official "fee" ($35 range is fine) but also encourage donations of any extra amount. And perhaps have an on-request option for fee reductions, based on proven need. Maybe board can approve the subsidized memberships? General membership does not need to know about the "charity cases" ... but I would hate to drop a good sewer/poster just because they can't afford the fee.

Offline CCL

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #102 on: December 22, 2017, 12:06:16 PM »
BessieCrocker, I like how you think!  I been mulling  paying for a gift subscription or two for others who can't afford it. That's actually a selfish act on my part,  because what makes SG important to me is the community of sewing comrades here.    And I do remember the days when even an extra 35 dollars could be an extreme burden for me.

Offline karent

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #103 on: December 22, 2017, 01:31:11 PM »
I thought about the same thing.  I figured I could just keep making my regular donations, more than the subscription rate proposed, and the extra could go into a "kitty" for gift subscriptions or unexpected expenses.  Surely, it would help to have an emergency money cushion, just as one might do (if able) for personal/household unexpected expenses.  Gift subscriptions could be possible, but would need some criteria met.  I used to belong to a golf club (I know, bad analogy, but so be it) that had a big sign over the bar in the clubhouse.  It said "If you have imbibed too much, and need transportation home, please contact our staff so discrete accommodations can be made."  I remember it because of the "discrete accommodations" part.  It could be listed in the rules, but maybe not heavily promoted (so as not to overwhelm the resources) that gift subscriptions are sometimes available and based on apparent need.  I would knee jerk to the teenagers who sometimes come here, and those who truly cannot manage to indulge in their craft.  Going to subscription should not remove us from being generous people who want the site to thrive.  Rather, it should prompt us to be just that.  K

Offline Petlover

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #104 on: December 22, 2017, 03:36:08 PM »
The maths
$35 US = £26.50 Sterling
Subscription for Sew Today (UK vogue patterns Mag) £37.50

In SG's heyday it would have been worth it for me, but sadly not now.

I know there are a lot of members from outside of America and I do enjoy this aspect of SG.

I feel that many of good contributors will be lost as they can't/won't pay.

If SG is subscription only, how will it gain new members?

I agree. It's too high. Especially for seniors. It's more than even Pattern Review.