Author Topic: The future of SG  (Read 44323 times)

Offline CCL

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #280 on: December 28, 2017, 10:05:05 PM »
/snip/
I believe we'll see more posts from the people we have when the aggravations of fighting with the errors goes away.

I think in some ways, DragonLady, you've hit on the core of it for several folks who are still on the fence about subscribing.  Once the site is stable, many of the concerns (though clearly not all) may be resolved.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 10:07:22 PM by CCL »

Offline Joyce P

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #281 on: December 29, 2017, 05:36:58 AM »
My hope is that enough people will 'gamble' their $35 on 2018 so that a move to a new server is financially feasible!

Offline Pipsy

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #282 on: December 29, 2017, 05:49:44 AM »
Great essay, Dragon Lady!
https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15

Thank you for posting.

It will lead to great discussions in one of my social group and distress in another social group, but food for thought.

I agree with Intigotiger's point of view re following threads and discussions. My needs regarding sewing discussions may not be the same as hers or others but I enjoy the points of view and hope to learn things if I haven't heard of something before, whether I agree or not. I am reminded of a phrase used to describe adult psychomotor learners, whom I worked with for years. Psychomotor learning requires both thinking (problem solving) and organized actions. One individual can't see the forest for the trees while another can't see the trees for the forest.

I realize my discourse doesn't add to the decisions regarding the future of SG.  If I decide I can afford it I don't think that $35 is too much ...even in Canadian funds ????

I have wished for a box to agree or disagree with a comment. It never entered my mind that it may indicate the popularity of the individual.  Could box be labelled agree with comment or idea? It would cut down on reading a lot of the same sentiments....which is boring and time consuming.

Pipsy 

Offline Pipsy

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #283 on: December 29, 2017, 06:10:04 AM »
As I have been reading and contributing some for more years than I can remember I have noticed that the majority age range of the men and women here seems to be early middle aged up to senior's with a few younger coming at times. I have reached the middle seniors age. I enjoy most discussions and barely glance at others. However, many posters, like myself are aging, some aging away and some slowing down, contributing when a sewing question is not answered by another, thus trying to prevent duplication.  Unfortunately quite a few have passed on or become unable to contribute for one reason or another but still like the discussions and social aspect of discussions. Thus some may not have left all together. Age and personality affect perceptions, something I always try to keep in mind in interpreting what people are discussing.

As an aside I don't believe Dragon Lady  started up Stitcher's Guild. Perhaps the Reloaded Stitchers Guild / Artisan Square when it became obvious it required more work was involved. But the original group was a group of moderating women, most are mods still here, volunteering their time and skills to share their interests with others of likewise interests. And they have been spectacular! DL is doing an admirable difficult job. I originally found the site through Threads Gatherings and once here I stopped visiting most other sites as I found I learned the most here - I was a single working mother of teenagers, thus had limited time. But over the years society and technology has brought many many changes and those changes have changed what is shared and perceived everywhere. I like the idea of a goal. It should perhaps indicate it is a sewers community and ideas that interest sewers and be highlighted or repeated often, in case some forget.

To hold a community together, we need a lot of voices -with very different ideas, opinions, lifestyles, religions, techniques, etc.  and that means now and then someone will be offended by something someone else had to say.

And pray most will not be too sensitive or respond in such a way to indicate or cause defensiveness. I am not sure where and how monitoring comes in, but if needs be the goals should be used as a guideline to contact dissenters and unhappy people as well as who is to listen and react to complaints.  Mods were doing it - still?

Good night - Pipsy

« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 07:27:55 AM by Pipsy »

Offline marie-louise

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #284 on: December 29, 2017, 02:21:50 PM »
I'm going to take another stab at trying to explain why I asked the questions I did about that elephant in the room...

I think it is a given that when you go to a website, it works. That's not a nice-to-have, that's a basic assumption. That part is DG's job and the details of it are her business. I don't see ourselves as just her customers/ subscribers. Yes, she is providing the service of a stable platform, but she is not selling us a product. This isn't a grocery store.

The real product of this forum is the content on this board. WE create the content and therefore, we are the real "owners" of this forum. (Yes, I'm aware that legally, she owns anything we post. I mean that we are all the owners in spirit.) We are the ones who provide value. We are the ones who make-or break-this board, once you get past the assumption that someone needs to keep the site up and running. Someone could design the most beautiful frou-frou sewing website, but it there aren't experienced, friendly and generous members who answer questions and provide interesting commentary, the site will be just another pretty but useless place on the internet. So when I ask how many members you need to attract/ how much money you need to raise to keep the site going, it is because I want to know if it worth my time versus wasting my time to begin to contribute content again. I was by no means the most prolific or dazzling poster, but I did start and keep two threads going while I was here: What to Sew While Losing Weight & Vivienne's Starting from Scratch. I haven't come back after the crash because I didn't trust that it wasn't going to crash and burn again. I chose not to make the investment of time posting on this site. I also want to know how close you are. If it's just 10 more members, come on, we can all help get to the finish line, but if you need 1000 and you've only got 100, some of us might make a different decision.

I originally found this forum in 2010 which doing research on a new machine. I posted a question and got great advice. Not only did it hook me in to become a new member, the advice I got stayed out there in public view to draw in others as well. So when I ask how you are going to attract new members once you are behind a firewall, that's why. If your goal is just to keep the lights on through 2018 for the 100 or so people who have become paid members, to me that's really different than the commitment of creating the best sewing forum on the internet.

Several people mentioned GOMI's thread about this site. Here's a positive comment I read ...
Quote
there is talent there, and a generous spirit, and a wealth of experience that isn't anywhere else I've found.

So DG, when I ask what your business plan is for differentiating yourself from Pattern Review, Textilla, etc., I expected to hear something like that. I assume you are trying to attract and retain members who reflect that spirit. I assume you (and anyone who joins and participates) could come up with a one-sentence answer to the question, Why  should I join Stitcher's Guild instead of ....?

As I said in my first post, I've missed this board. I'm really sorry to see it go away from public view. I'd happily provide a lot more than $35 as part of a one-time Go Fund Me effort that was specifically designated to be used to move the board-and all of it's existing content from the last 10 years-to a stable, searchable site. But I would need assurances that I'd be getting a good return on my investment. Maybe that's just me, but I don't spend my money without knowing what I am getting for it.

Offline andib

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #285 on: December 29, 2017, 03:01:38 PM »
.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 08:38:03 PM by andib »

Offline Daylily430

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #286 on: December 29, 2017, 03:28:13 PM »
Marie-Louise, my sentiments exactly! My further thoughts are how likely are advertisers willing to place ads on a site that has limited viewership?

Offline Judith

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #287 on: December 29, 2017, 05:08:29 PM »
I am willing to put up $35 just  to give SG a chance to survive.

But also: I have drawers and crannies full of quilt fabric leftovers that are too big to toss - and I know most will not end up in yet another scrappy quilt. Today I read through the topic of napkins.

Light bulb!

Now that stash will become easy to make, washable, pretty yet durable napkins and I will be using less paper while also having quick and easy projects for those tines when you just want something mindless to sew.

That alone is worth $35!  And although it seems an obvious solution, I hadn’t even considered it till I read SG this morning

Oh - I take back my suggestion of a thumbs up button. Hadn’t considered the popularity contest factor. Don’t want that.

Judith
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Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #288 on: December 29, 2017, 05:13:57 PM »
Marie-Louise,

I understand your concerns and your sentiment.

But, let me point out a few things that seem to be getting shoved under the rug under your elephant:

1) No one is being compelled to pay for SG or any other website.  This is not a cult.  If you want to stay, stay.  If you don't want to stay, then leave.  It's your choice.

2) I know very well what my job is.  I've sat over here in this corner, essentially forgotten and ignored, doing my job for over a decade. 

3) I do not operate in a vacuum.  This site depends on a bunch of different ingredients to be what she is, and it's not all on me to provide all of it.  I rely on a hosting account with a competent staff.  I rely on having members who show up and decide to make the place home.  I rely on a way to keep the bills paid just like every other person with any job.

4) Speech (user created content) is free.  No doubt.  But a stage is not.  Whether you're talking about sewing on this board, that board, in your living room, over the telephone, out in the woods or on the space station, there are bills to be paid.  There is no way around it. 

5) Part of the point of charging a subscription is making sure I can pay for however many people we have.  If we need hosting for a hundred, then I have money to pay for them.  If we need hosting for five thousand, there's money in the bank to pay for hosting for five thousand.  If, as you seem to hope, everyone walks away, then I won't need to pay for hosting at all. 

Finally: if SG is not worth a subscription to YOU then don't buy one.  Accept our best wishes, find another site, and make it your home.

PS: My name is DragonLady.  That's DL
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Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #289 on: December 29, 2017, 05:24:08 PM »
Marie-Louise, my sentiments exactly! My further thoughts are how likely are advertisers willing to place ads on a site that has limited viewership?

I have no intention at this time of pursuing any more advertisers.  If one approaches me, we'll talk, but I've spent far too much of my time "chasing funds" when I needed to be doing other things.

From now on, I have ONE full-time, sometimes all-the-time job on this board, and I'm going to do it.  But one is enough.
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Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #290 on: December 29, 2017, 07:21:26 PM »
Everyone:

If you sent me a contribution during 2017, but do not have "paid member" as a group in your profile, send me a private message with your real name.  When I put those into my accounting program, I didn't include member names, so now I have quite a few I can't match up.

So let me know who you are (or what it says on your check), and I'll get you fixed up as soon as I can.

Right now, as I type, I'm uploading the backup scripts I've made to another hosting account.  This is a "trial run" toward moving the site, just to be sure I know exactly what I'm doing, what problems I might encounter, etc.  I don't know yet if this account will be "the one" but having this opportunity for a trial is a blessing, as it will help me determine if they can meet our needs or not.
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Offline Judith

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #291 on: December 29, 2017, 08:43:12 PM »
DL said "I know very well what my job is.  I've sat over here in this corner, essentially forgotten and ignored, doing my job for over a decade. "

That's true - because you do that job so well, so we just take it for granted.

I'm repeating myself, but want to say again that IMHO moving to a paid subscription is an excellent decision for you, and for us. And for heaven's sake people, it's $3/month. I just placed an order for some fabric and tools on sale, and I cannot believe that $35 will break any sewers' budget.

Someone suggested a discount for seniors. I'm a senior. No thank you. I can pay my own way for my entertainment. Senior discounts are important in our world for necessities. Not for fun.

Just my opinion.

Judith
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Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #292 on: December 29, 2017, 08:47:49 PM »
Quote
That's true - because you do that job so well, so we just take it for granted.

lol

thank-you

/DL takes a bow

Still downloading scripts and such.... This is one of the reasons moving is such a monumental task.  There are tens of thousands of lines of code.
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Offline Lyn-J

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #293 on: December 29, 2017, 08:49:25 PM »
I agree what you said marie-louise

DL, as you know I have decided not to subscribe for the time being. How will I know if I want to join up in future? What will I be able to see as a non-subscriber?

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #294 on: December 29, 2017, 08:55:34 PM »
I agree what you said marie-louise

DL, as you know I have decided not to subscribe for the time being. How will I know if I want to join up in future? What will I be able to see as a non-subscriber?

I don't have all those details worked out just yet, but a LIKELY scenario:

You'll be able to see everything as it is, and be able to post in at least one section -the SWAP section will remain open, at least for now.  Otherwise, to do most of things you're able to do now, you'll have to buy a subscription.  I'm still not sure about the fate of the yard sale section, and the "site news" section, but will likely leave open some kind of venue for requesting help, if needed.

Later in the year, more things may move into -or out- of view, depending on how things go.

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Offline Lyn-J

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #295 on: December 29, 2017, 09:03:19 PM »
I don't have all those details worked out just yet

I think perhaps this transition would have gone a lot smoother if you had.

Two weeks' notice (at Christmas time) and the uncertainty of the content is what is causing all the commotion.

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #296 on: December 29, 2017, 09:09:20 PM »
I don't have all those details worked out just yet

I think perhaps this transition would have gone a lot smoother if you had.

Two weeks' notice (at Christmas time) and the uncertainty of the content is what is causing all the commotion.

Probably.  But, life throws curve balls, and all any of us can do is try to hit it, or move out of the way and let it fall.

I'm working with the circumstances I have, not the ones I wish I had.
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Offline Magimum

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #297 on: December 29, 2017, 09:35:16 PM »
To be fair, we've all seen what SG has to offer over the years. I based my decision to subscribe from that experience.
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Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #298 on: December 29, 2017, 10:31:13 PM »
If your real name is Alice T., or anyone here knows her member name, please send me a private message.
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Offline AnnetteB

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #299 on: December 29, 2017, 10:54:15 PM »
To be fair, we've all seen what SG has to offer over the years. I based my decision to subscribe from that experience.

Well said Magimum.
Annette
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Offline Debby

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #300 on: December 29, 2017, 11:07:51 PM »
Thank you, Magimum.

Offline Pipsy

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #301 on: December 30, 2017, 12:38:22 AM »
DL, as you know I have decided not to subscribe for the time being. How will I know if I want to join up in future? What will I be able to see as a non-subscriber?

I don't have all those details worked out just yet, but a LIKELY scenario:

......but will likely leave open some kind of venue for requesting help, if needed.

.......
I had the same question as Lynn as well as wondering the future goal of Stitchers guild.
Requesting sewing and quilting help and reading quality help brought me here in the first place as well as the level of discussion - I tire of much of the swearing and dumb (my opinion) talk found on much internet talk. I have always discussed not only my sewing findings with off net friends, as most don't sew, but also many thoughtful off sewing topics I follow on Stitchers Guild.  One of the reasons I never thought of a check box as a popularity contest but as a solution to duplicates and thus reading time saver I hoped to achieved as being a enrolled member. I have many other things to do with my life. I am not a jealous or competetive person. Now that I am retired I am learning many things I had never thought before. LOL I am selective when reading the postings as I previously mentioned and depending on how things turn out here I will stay or not.

I guess in a round about way I have the same thoughts as Marie-Louise and saving and keeping open sewing advice from being lost to many who search and those generous contributors.

What is the difference between a subscriber and an enlisted/ enrolled member? On any forum?

Pipsy
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 12:48:16 AM by Pipsy »

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #302 on: December 30, 2017, 12:52:00 AM »
Quote
What is the difference between a subscriber and an enlisted/ enrolled member? On any forum?

It depends on the forum.

Some forums cannot be browsed or read at all without enrolling, and some without subscribing.

Some leave small sections open, but move other sections behind "the wall" so only those who are registered or subscribed can view or use them.

Here, it will depend a great deal on how many subscribers we have, versus how much traffic I expect that is not subscribed.

As it stands right now, we're in good shape for 2018, so I have lots of options right now, and I'm taking everyone's suggestions and input.
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Offline Pipsy

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #303 on: December 30, 2017, 01:20:16 AM »
Well, personally I like the idea of the sharing of sewing and quilt ideas, NOT AS NEEDED but as the original intent of SG.  Another non enrolled site I used to visit was my go to site but evolved into a sales site for visitors. So I stopped going and lost many good acquaintances in the process. It took me awhile to find Threads Gatherings which now is a mess of spammers with no one from Threads looking at it. Having 'signed up' for Stitchers guild (the signing up a seemingly good idea) I stayed and have stayed since some time in the 1990's. 

As I previously noted technology has changed considerably each year and one can't deny the changes, but I still see enrolled sewing sites free to individuals, most enrolled, it's just as a senior and moderately experienced sewer, the other sites seem to attract beginners or sewers with different vocabulary! I liked the adult input here as it was before the move.

As you have enough money for 2118, why not leave as is for the year while asking everyone past and present to clarify and/ or develop a goal and descriptors?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 01:26:28 AM by Pipsy »

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #304 on: December 30, 2017, 01:37:19 AM »
For the last three years everyone here has had the opporunity to help prevent this turn of events, but very few did.

Now, I'm done defending my decision to move forward.





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Offline sewvt

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #305 on: December 30, 2017, 01:42:02 AM »
DL, sorry to put this here.  I've tried to PM you several times.  No messages to you show up in my sent file, although pms to others are there.  Did any of them get through to you?

thanks!

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #306 on: December 30, 2017, 01:43:31 AM »
DL, sorry to put this here.  I've tried to PM you several times.  No messages to you show up in my sent file, although pms to others are there.  Did any of them get through to you?

thanks!

No; they didn't.  I'll message you.
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Offline sewingbox

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #307 on: December 30, 2017, 01:49:08 AM »
DL I just sent you a message also that I paid before Christmas but I don't see the message I sent either. 

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #308 on: December 30, 2017, 01:50:28 AM »
DL I just sent you a message also that I paid before Christmas but I don't see the message I sent either.

I just answered you...you're all ready to go.
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Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #309 on: December 30, 2017, 01:50:54 AM »
DL, sorry to put this here.  I've tried to PM you several times.  No messages to you show up in my sent file, although pms to others are there.  Did any of them get through to you?

thanks!

Have you gotten my message to you?
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Offline sewingbox

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #310 on: December 30, 2017, 01:51:13 AM »
Thank you DL :)

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #311 on: December 30, 2017, 01:57:29 AM »
sewvt, if you haven't received a message from me by now, email me: dl@artisanssquare.com
The road to our success is always under construction.
If you should have any trouble with any aspect of the forums, just email me: dl@artisanssquare.com

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Offline Debbie S

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #312 on: December 30, 2017, 03:43:58 AM »
Unless my calculations are way off, the SG subscription cost is about 67 cents per week, and for me the input I receive far outweighs that!  I understand this is a personal decision for each and everyone, as well it should be, but with all due respect let’s leave it at that, and move on!

Offline DebbyA

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #313 on: December 30, 2017, 12:57:20 PM »
DL, sorry to put this here.  I've tried to PM you several times.  No messages to you show up in my sent file, although pms to others are there.  Did any of them get through to you?

thanks!

I have the same problem, and will also email you.

Offline Linda75142

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #314 on: December 30, 2017, 01:13:08 PM »
For the last three years everyone here has had the opporunity to help prevent this turn of events, but very few did.

Now, I'm done defending my decision to move forward.


For those that are unhappy with the situation, you can always start your own forum and deal with what DL deals with on a daily basis.   If you create one, I'll subscribe and see how it goes.

I am happy to be a paying customer.  I have been donating for the past years, but those of us who did couldn't carry it for all the ones who could not or did not contribute (and I'm making no judgments about whether you did or did not).  At this point, the way I look at it, you pay your money, you take your chances.  May work well, may not.  Nothing in this life is guaranteed.