Author Topic: The future of SG  (Read 44327 times)

Offline Petlover

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #245 on: December 28, 2017, 02:16:51 PM »
GREAT post, Remnant!!


Offline Remnant

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #246 on: December 28, 2017, 02:47:15 PM »
DL ... I'm still mulling ... here's an honest question ...

If there is someone who contributed more than the average, has that person been given a "pass" on forum etiquette?

I imagine it would be difficult to hold equal court if someone is substantially supporting the forum financially. Has that been at play?

Offline Morgan

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #247 on: December 28, 2017, 02:53:35 PM »
Quote
"Lack of excitement" in a nutshell, but the good kind not the chaos kind. Inspiration and depth of sewing knowledge from many, many people. That's what I miss.

hear hear
of all the forums, SG was where the more advanced & interesting sewing/pattern making discussions were shared from the hive mind and that together with the inspiration and SWAPs is what attracted me and what I miss (a lot).

« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 05:00:49 PM by Morgan »

Offline Carmen

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #248 on: December 28, 2017, 03:12:25 PM »
My two cents, for what it's worth.

In discussion about the cost of $35 for annual membership of SG, I have seen comparison of SG to PatternReview.  There is really no way to compare the two.  I am a non pay member of Pattern Review.  I have access to all of the forums, contests, reviews, etc.  If I chose to pay the $39 to be a member, I would have deals on patterns, access to classes, and a larger data base in which to organize my patterns, fabric stash etc.  I go to PatternReview almost every day.  It is a great resource!

The reason that I would have liked to be part of SG is to be able to be part of a group of like minded people and be part of the community of sewists.  That, in and of itself is not worth $35.  Especially, since it appears that many people will not continue.

Exactly what will entice new members to join?  There doesn't appear to be any incentive for new members who aren't already on the site to even find out about SG.   How exactly will you grow your membership?  I feel as if SG will become an elite group of those who are willing to take a chance on the new format and I'm not sure how long that will last.

DragonLady:  I mean no disrespect towards you!  You have done a wonderful job maintaining this site - especially with the crash that happened.  I completely understand why things have to change.  I'm just not sure the current direction is going to work.

I have no answers.  I also am not aiming a criticism towards anyone in particular.  I just thought an "outsiders" point of view might be somewhat helpful.

Best wishes to all.

Offline Pina

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #249 on: December 28, 2017, 03:22:51 PM »

Without conflict, and serious -deep- differences of opinion, there is no discussion.

Do we want a lively board where everyone has a voice -even those you don't want to hear, or do we want a nice, polite, peaceful graveyard?

If needed, I'll elaborate on this post, but I'm being serious -and your admin- when I say this.  If we remove the right to speak our minds, there won't be any minds speaking.

I believe the health of a message board depends on very widely dissenting voices from every spectrum -which by necessity, means a few will hold view or say things no one else wants to hear.

To hold a community together, we need a lot of voices - with very different ideas, opinions, lifestyles, religions, techniques, etc.  and that means now and then someone will be offended by something someone else had to say.

Exactly !

I respect karent's knowledge and honesty ! I don't understand the nasty comments since. Please read her comments,I happen to agree with,again with - an open mind.

To me a snowflake or powder puff are not nasty names,both are very delicate.  I have been called worse - evil - in a PM. I asked one member if her e-mail with her first and last name and a link was hacked. She accused me of sending her a virus,. Not ! Her words got worse I'm - evil - and she is going to make sure I get banned.

Re : New OT/Political Board - OPT-IN only. I think only a few people couldn't or can't - not click - on a topic they don't like. I found the comments here very upsetting.

..............suggestions for topics to be relocated there? I'd kind of like to see the various threads primarily aimed at browbeating or guilting us about waste  inherent in our society's system to leave the general population of threads.

Browbeating ?  Waste ?  Please list all those SG topics here !
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 03:28:36 PM by Pina »

Offline Diane in WV

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #250 on: December 28, 2017, 04:19:57 PM »
I think not referring to people as "powder puffs" or "snowflakes" might be a good place to start a civil conversation about why people will or will not subscribe.
Please explain exactly WHO a "snowflake" is. A Christian? conservative? liberal? a deplorable? or anybody who doesn't agree with you? combination?
  I really want to know, I might be one.
Let's talk about math

Offline Diane in WV

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #251 on: December 28, 2017, 04:39:58 PM »
"Overly-sensitive powder puffs..."

"Allow conversation that isn't illegal or threatening to occur without censorship just because there are snowflakes (sorry, I don't know of a better word) that don't want to know about people doing something else with their brains and energy than sew."

How do those statements reflect fact?

Snowflake is "A term used to describe extremist liberals that get offended by every statement and/or belief that doesn't exactly match their own. These individuals think they are just as "unique" as snowflakes, when really their feelings are just as fragile." Which sounds like a pretty derogatory label to me.

Those statements are opinion but reflect the facts of what is going on in our country right now.  People staying in bubbles with finding only what they want to use to support their own opinion instead of actively searching out both sides to a story, or those whom state anything that differs with their opinion is "fake news". 

As to "snowflakes", that term has been usurped by the alt-right to refer to what they assume are young alt-left unemployed men on their computers in their parents' basements.  Don't know if you meant your comment as an insult to "liberals" but if you read down in the Urban Dictionary where your definition is listed, there are other historical references to a "snowflake," including "referring to someone, usually the Alt-Right, Yiannopoulos, And Nazi Sympathizers (A.K.A. ARYANS), whose immense white fragility causes a meltdown when confronted with the most minute deviation from orthodox White Supremacy. They often cry bloody murder when expected to give the most modest expression of basic human decency.  This is all a continuation of how Snowflake historically refers to people who are against the abolition of slavery."

There is also a very sad description there of what the origin "snowflake" term was used for in WW2 Germany. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snowflake

However, I imagine karent was using the term for this definition also in the Urban Dictionary - "A hypersensitive, irrational person who can't stand to have their world views challenged, or be offended in any perceived or even slightest of ways; they will have any number of emotional reactions: impuning character and/or motives, blocking on social media, shouting, interrupting, threatening, assaulting, etc. They often live in an echo chamber of their own beliefs and surround themselves exclusively with people and opinions that agree with their own. This term is most often used to describe people left-leaning people, but can be applied both left and right wing people."
Sadly, many of us have felt this the last couple of years here, not only on political topics but also if someone makes a comment that seems to go against the adulation of whoever or whatever a particular thread is about.

Now that we've cleared up snowflakes (Erie, PA sure got inundated with them the past couple of days), back to the topic.
  I like POLITE. I was conversing with one member on a touchy subject, knowing full well, her views were completely opposite of mine, but we could discuss without bullying, I think that is refreshing and unfortunately, rare.
  You can also get bashed for saying NICE things about a dealer...I did.
  So, it doesn't HAVE to be saying bad things, it can be good things too.
  This list is a lot like the people in the military, when I was in (can't speak for now) there were some really GREAT people, and there were some really AWFUL  people.
  I think 'snowflake' is a term used to describe those you don't like, maybe because the more vulgar words aren't allowed. Vulgar language of any kind is a turn off for me, I quit listening (or reading) when one is used.

  Like I said, one can actually have a polite conversation with somebody whose opinions are totally different. The Boy Scout leaders here is a case in point...SHE is a extreme liberal, and HE is a extreme conservative. They get along very well.
   But then I'm reminded of a book I read, 'Sound of Music", the book, not the movie. The butler informed them that he was a nazi, and so they had to be very careful when speaking around him. 
Let's talk about math

Offline Diane in WV

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #252 on: December 28, 2017, 04:56:14 PM »
I'm reading a book right now, and one of the quotes in it is from The Reverend Sydney Smith (1877), "One of the greatest pleasures in life is conversation (and I particularly like men, women, and children."
  This place is like conversations taking place, but in written form.
Let's talk about math

Offline MaryOK

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #253 on: December 28, 2017, 04:58:19 PM »
I will miss Artisanssquare, but I do not plan to subscribe. 

Stitcher's Guild helped me enormously when I started sewing again 12 years ago, and I have appreciated and loved the support, advice, and most gracious compliments given by Kathryn, Liana, and others. 

SWAP (Sewing With a Plan), 6-PACs, Ann's Pearls of Wisdom, Lisanne's pattern/wardrobing advice and other threads have inspired me to sew coordinated wardrobes and improve my skills. For that, I am grateful.

As an almost-daily lurker, I've looked forward to posts about new pattern releases for inspiration.

I've even enjoyed some of the quarrels.

Thank you, DragonLady, moderators, and SWAP coordinators, for all you do. Volunteers make our world a better place in many, many ways, and I am grateful to you for elevating my online social network of sewists. I will miss you.

Best regards to all!

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #254 on: December 28, 2017, 06:02:19 PM »
Okay; let's move on from the "snowflakes" discussion, okay?

Here's the dilemma I face:

How do we go forward with a lively, interesting place where everyone can be heard, when we know going in the pumpkins, gourds and squash all take umbrage with each other?

We hear a lot about the "bullies" and the problems they can cause.  But, now we've also all seen first hand what happens when they stop: crickets, and a slowly evaporating membership.

It's simple: the bullies on Monday are the "regular gals" on Tuesday.  Everyone has a bad day, and wants to share, sometimes. When I get tired and emotional, I get snarky.  My rather dark sense of humor isn't shared by many, so for the most part I've stopped trying to make jokes.  My experience on forums -both as member and admin- over the years has shown me, in plain black-and-white that when the colorful characters (that can hurt so many feelings sometimes) can also be the flash-in-the-pan that catches attention.

I don't like my feelings hurt any more than anyone else.  I realize we've had a few members who were able to make some low, constant rumbles that led to earthquakes, and I let that go on for too long before I recognized the issue for what it was.

That's on ME.  Hopefully, I'm still learning from my mistakes, and going forward I will take more care to consider a member's overall history when reading some of the reports and trying to decide whether someone has crossed the line. 

Maybe it's too little, too late. But I'm still faced with the question: how should I handle the fact that if we're going to have a wide, interesting group of people, we're going to have a wide number of interpersonal issues and a number of people who just can't stand each other?


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Offline Diane in WV

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #255 on: December 28, 2017, 06:15:46 PM »
 I think I left off an important point when I mentioned the Boy scout leaders, She, an extreme liberal, and He an extreme conservative....um...they are married to each other, not just Boy scout leaders together. They get along just fine.
Let's talk about math

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #256 on: December 28, 2017, 06:24:29 PM »
I think I left off an important point when I mentioned the Boy scout leaders, She, an extreme liberal, and He an extreme conservative....um...they are married to each other, not just Boy scout leaders together. They get along just fine.

My DH and I are extreme polar opposites on a great many issues, and we've managed to weather it.  But...it's not always pleasant, and if we multiply that by a board full of people, there will be lively discussions...around the fires. 

SG can go the direction of 4chan...but does anyone here really think that's a good idea?  I, for one, do not.
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Offline Petlover

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #257 on: December 28, 2017, 06:26:32 PM »
I think I left off an important point when I mentioned the Boy scout leaders, She, an extreme liberal, and He an extreme conservative....um...they are married to each other, not just Boy scout leaders together. They get along just fine.

My DH and I are extreme polar opposites on a great many issues, and we've managed to weather it.  But...it's not always pleasant, and if we multiply that by a board full of people, there will be lively discussions...around the fires. 

SG can go the direction of 4chan...but does anyone here really think that's a good idea?  I, for one, do not.

What is 4chan?

Offline Diane in WV

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #258 on: December 28, 2017, 06:32:38 PM »
I think I left off an important point when I mentioned the Boy scout leaders, She, an extreme liberal, and He an extreme conservative....um...they are married to each other, not just Boy scout leaders together. They get along just fine.

My DH and I are extreme polar opposites on a great many issues, and we've managed to weather it.  But...it's not always pleasant, and if we multiply that by a board full of people, there will be lively discussions...around the fires. 

SG can go the direction of 4chan...but does anyone here really think that's a good idea?  I, for one, do not.
What is 4chan?
Let's talk about math

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #259 on: December 28, 2017, 06:37:54 PM »
4chan is a message board that allows anonymous posting, so pretty much anything goes.

We will not go there.  Or at least, not with me at the helm. I mostly threw the idea out there to show that despite SG's problems, she's still a great place to be, and a very long, long way from the chaos some sites embody.
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Offline Petlover

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #260 on: December 28, 2017, 06:47:09 PM »
4chan is a message board that allows anonymous posting, so pretty much anything goes.

We will not go there.  Or at least, not with me at the helm. I mostly threw the idea out there to show that despite SG's problems, she's still a great place to be, and a very long, long way from the chaos some sites embody.

Oh that would be terrible. No thank you - no 4chan.

Offline indigotiger

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #261 on: December 28, 2017, 07:12:00 PM »
I think that the way the board is structured now, with discussions of "other topics" aka Chatter, is a good structure. Although I have been a registered member since 2009, I pretty much rarely ever even did more than glance at this section for years, since I came here for the sewing community and feedback. Now, I do skim through the Chatter section, but if I see topics that I know I won't enjoy, I just skip over them. For me, that works best. I would not want there to be "forbidden" topics, and I can just choose where I want to participate and where I will just "leave the room" in a virtual sense. I have the impression that most of the controversy happens in the threads here in Chatter, although some also in the sewing sections.

I didn't know, for a long time, that it was possible for me to individually set my feed to "not see posts from" someone; when I found that out, I was able to block the one person who often posted in the sewing sections with comments that I found rude and not useful. (Maybe there could be some way to have that function be more obvious?) While I do find it hurtful when people use rude language, I also remind myself that I am not a child on the playground, in physical danger from mean children, but safely at home in my own house, an adult who can choose who to interact with and who to ignore.

I get so much value from the people here who are interested in sewing, who comment about my queries, who post about projects that they are doing, or who sometimes have questions I may be able to offer my own clues about what would help, and the overall encouragment from the people here. There are many areas of the forum that I just skim, or don't even look at, as the topics discussed are not ones I am interested in, whether they are kinds of sewing I don't do, or things I don't have equipment for, or the sorts of discussions I don't enjoy even in person with friends. That doesn't mean that I don't want those areas to be here, since that would make the board be less inclusive, and as far as I am concerned, being inclusive of variation is something I value.

I hope that in the future that SG will continue to be an online home for discussions of the many aspects of sewing, and that the non-sewing discussions will also have a home here for all the various topics that people want to discuss. To me, the people here on the board gradually became part of my group of friends, and when I was homebound recovering from surgery, this place was a lifeline helping me feel less isolated. I truly hope that going forward, that SG will continue to exist and thrive, through the efforts of Dragon Lady, the assistance of the moderators, and the contributions of all of us
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Offline marie-louise

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #262 on: December 28, 2017, 07:21:27 PM »
There's a real elephant in this room, and it has nothing to do with the tone of this board or the definition of snowflake.

It is that there is no business plan being offered beyond "I want a salary for the work that I do here."

DG hasn't promised that there will be a move to a new, more stable hosting service-just that she knows she needs one.

DG hasn't shared how much money moving to a new, more stable platform would cost/ how many members this site needs to attract to stay open.

DG hasn't said what will happen to "the site" (the domain name & the content) if she decides to shut it down.

Any comparisons to competitors have been ignored but they are important. Why would someone spend $35 a year for this site when you can get more for less at other sewing boards?

Last but not least, there doesn't seem to be any plan to attract new members. Once this site is behind a firewall, no one will ever see it to see if it is worth joining.

Offline Karen

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #263 on: December 28, 2017, 07:33:16 PM »
It may have been mentioned elsewhere but I did mention Facebook and wasn't intending to imply that there is an SG Facebook group, rather I have a large "group" (word used loosely) of friends accumulated from SW/SG over the years many who I've met and get together with in person but others who communicate regularly about many things non sewing - but somehow someway we each/all connected here and on the former SW before we became FB friends.

-- rest of msg. deleted --
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 01:43:02 PM by Karen »
Karen

Offline Susan in Saint John

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #264 on: December 28, 2017, 07:36:00 PM »
I think that the way the board is structured now, with discussions of "other topics" aka Chatter, is a good structure. Although I have been a registered member since 2009, I pretty much rarely ever even did more than glance at this section for years, since I came here for the sewing community and feedback. Now, I do skim through the Chatter section, but if I see topics that I know I won't enjoy, I just skip over them. For me, that works best. I would not want there to be "forbidden" topics, and I can just choose where I want to participate and where I will just "leave the room" in a virtual sense. I have the impression that most of the controversy happens in the threads here in Chatter, although some also in the sewing sections.

I didn't know, for a long time, that it was possible for me to individually set my feed to "not see posts from" someone; when I found that out, I was able to block the one person who often posted in the sewing sections with comments that I found rude and not useful. (Maybe there could be some way to have that function be more obvious?) While I do find it hurtful when people use rude language, I also remind myself that I am not a child on the playground, in physical danger from mean children, but safely at home in my own house, an adult who can choose who to interact with and who to ignore.

I get so much value from the people here who are interested in sewing, who comment about my queries, who post about projects that they are doing, or who sometimes have questions I may be able to offer my own clues about what would help, and the overall encouragment from the people here. There are many areas of the forum that I just skim, or don't even look at, as the topics discussed are not ones I am interested in, whether they are kinds of sewing I don't do, or things I don't have equipment for, or the sorts of discussions I don't enjoy even in person with friends. That doesn't mean that I don't want those areas to be here, since that would make the board be less inclusive, and as far as I am concerned, being inclusive of variation is something I value.

I hope that in the future that SG will continue to be an online home for discussions of the many aspects of sewing, and that the non-sewing discussions will also have a home here for all the various topics that people want to discuss. To me, the people here on the board gradually became part of my group of friends, and when I was homebound recovering from surgery, this place was a lifeline helping me feel less isolated. I truly hope that going forward, that SG will continue to exist and thrive, through the efforts of Dragon Lady, the assistance of the moderators, and the contributions of all of us

I agree

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #265 on: December 28, 2017, 07:42:22 PM »
There's a real elephant in this room, and it has nothing to do with the tone of this board or the definition of snowflake.

It is that there is no business plan being offered beyond "I want a salary for the work that I do here."

DG hasn't promised that there will be a move to a new, more stable hosting service-just that she knows she needs one.

DG hasn't shared how much money moving to a new, more stable platform would cost/ how many members this site needs to attract to stay open.

DG hasn't said what will happen to "the site" (the domain name & the content) if she decides to shut it down.

Any comparisons to competitors have been ignored but they are important. Why would someone spend $35 a year for this site when you can get more for less at other sewing boards?

Last but not least, there doesn't seem to be any plan to attract new members. Once this site is behind a firewall, no one will ever see it to see if it is worth joining.

Okay.....

I intend to move to new platform I hope will be more stable as soon as I am able to.  That requires both money, and a careful moving plan, along with the time & personal effort required.  There's also no guarantee the board will be perfectly functional once it's moved; there are nearly always a few new bugs, but hopefully they will be resolvable bugs, not just an ongoing series of "no, that's not it" and "tried that, no joy" type messages from the hosts we'll be working with.

When, exactly, this all happens is still a bit up-in-the-air.  Right now, my focus is on making sure everyone understands what is happening, and why.  I have to decide what the community is going to look like going forward, how we're going to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past, how to handle ongoing transactions (the yard sale, private messages, people on vacation) etc. so that no one who wants to be here is lost in the shuffle.  It takes time. It takes careful handling.  It takes a commitment. I'm doing my best -as I type- to provide all three.

I have no plans at this time to share the costs of running the board, nor the revenues it brings, if any.  Instead, I have a plan to make sure SG continues to survive through to the end of 2018, at which time I *hope* there will be the resources needed to continue. However, I refrain from making promises, because I know there are no guarantees in this life.  I cannot promise the sun will come up, let alone promise I'll be alive to see it.  I, like everyone else, pay my dues and take my chances.

I *suppose* that if I am forced to shut it down, I will tarball the database & scripts, store them on a RAID, and sell the domain -or just let it lapse.   Mind you, this is not a plan or the plan; it's just speculation as to what might come to pass.

I'm not running our competitors, so I see no need to run comparisons.  This is not Pattern Review.  I do not have their software, their membership, their bills or their problems.  SG has to stand on her own.  If you do not believe SG is worth a subscription fee to YOU, then do not subscribe.  Vote with your dollars, and let the cards fall where they will.

You're right: I do need plans to attract new members.  But first, IMO, we need to be able to provide reliable service to the members we have. 



« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:44:38 PM by DragonLady »
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Offline Magimum

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #266 on: December 28, 2017, 07:58:06 PM »
There's a real elephant in this room, and it has nothing to do with the tone of this board or the definition of snowflake.

It is that there is no business plan being offered beyond "I want a salary for the work that I do here."

DG hasn't promised that there will be a move to a new, more stable hosting service-just that she knows she needs one.

DG hasn't shared how much money moving to a new, more stable platform would cost/ how many members this site needs to attract to stay open.

DG hasn't said what will happen to "the site" (the domain name & the content) if she decides to shut it down.

Any comparisons to competitors have been ignored but they are important. Why would someone spend $35 a year for this site when you can get more for less at other sewing boards?

Last but not least, there doesn't seem to be any plan to attract new members. Once this site is behind a firewall, no one will ever see it to see if it is worth joining.

I guess if DragonLady creates a site, and charges a membership fee to use it, then it's her commercial enterprise and she doesn't have to share the finances with anyone. It's up to us to decide whether we want to pay to join and up to her to market it to us (and other potential members).

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Offline Casharp

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #267 on: December 28, 2017, 08:38:21 PM »
OK, I heard about the subscription plan over on Pattern Review and came over to see what was up. I've read some but not all of this thread, and I've subscribed for 2018. I did that mainly because I enjoy this site even though I don't keep up as much as I used to. There are some members whose posts I search for and other times I just browse around. I'm ok with the vagueness of the future plans, because you can't really decide what to do till you know what kind of money you might have to do it with. Hopefully things will work out and get settled and we'll all live happily ever after. Yeah, I'm one of those optimistic people :-)

Offline Melinda_B

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #268 on: December 28, 2017, 08:55:47 PM »
There's a real elephant in this room, and it has nothing to do with the tone of this board or the definition of snowflake.

It is that there is no business plan being offered beyond "I want a salary for the work that I do here."

No, DL has said that the site as it is is unsustainable and it requires funding in order to continue and to be moved to a stable and fully functional platform

Quote
DG hasn't promised that there will be a move to a new, more stable hosting service-just that she knows she needs one.

Yes she has.  DL has repeatedly stated that one of the first things she is doing, and is already looking into, is moving to a stable platform with better hosts

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DG hasn't shared how much money moving to a new, more stable platform would cost/ how many members this site needs to attract to stay open.

DG hasn't said what will happen to "the site" (the domain name & the content) if she decides to shut it down. 

Not our business, and I mean that literally.  Whether SG is a paid-for platform or free, DL started it and owns it.  There is absolutely no requirement for her to disclose any of her business plans, budgets, income, etc.  None of us go into the supermarket and ask to see their business plans and finance statements before shopping there, so why are people (and it's been repeated many times in this thread) expecting it from DL?

Everything costs money, time, effort, and skill to run.  There are very few people in this world who can afford to donate all of these in order to provide a free platform for its users.  DL has done this for many years, and it has now reached the point where it is unsustainable and we the users need to pony up and pay for what we're using.
Melinda

Perth, Australia
Personal Blog - https://melbrennan.com/

Offline Judith

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #269 on: December 28, 2017, 09:03:05 PM »
Okay; let's move on from the "snowflakes" discussion, okay?

Here's the dilemma I face:

How do we go forward with a lively, interesting place where everyone can be heard, when we know going in the pumpkins, gourds and squash all take umbrage with each other?

We hear a lot about the "bullies" and the problems they can cause.  But, now we've also all seen first hand what happens when they stop: crickets, and a slowly evaporating membership.

It's simple: the bullies on Monday are the "regular gals" on Tuesday.  Everyone has a bad day, and wants to share, sometimes. When I get tired and emotional, I get snarky.  My rather dark sense of humor isn't shared by many, so for the most part I've stopped trying to make jokes.  My experience on forums -both as member and admin- over the years has shown me, in plain black-and-white that when the colorful characters (that can hurt so many feelings sometimes) can also be the flash-in-the-pan that catches attention.

I don't like my feelings hurt any more than anyone else.  I realize we've had a few members who were able to make some low, constant rumbles that led to earthquakes, and I let that go on for too long before I recognized the issue for what it was.

That's on ME.  Hopefully, I'm still learning from my mistakes, and going forward I will take more care to consider a member's overall history when reading some of the reports and trying to decide whether someone has crossed the line. 

Maybe it's too little, too late. But I'm still faced with the question: how should I handle the fact that if we're going to have a wide, interesting group of people, we're going to have a wide number of interpersonal issues and a number of people who just can't stand each other?

Perhaps you could just operate on the premise that we are grownups who do not need to be either chastised or shielded. I think the way you handled the one nasty person I remember was absolutely correct. You gave her rope, I think you probably pm’d her, and when she resorted to foul language you sent her packing. Now, that particular person didn’t personally attack me.  But I did find her rudeness unhelpful, so I blocked her. Seems to me that solution worked well.

So I guess I’m saying let’s expect that some people won’t be able to stand each other and will take appropriate action themselves without the need of a den mother. But in the very rare cases where it’s over the top, this is your site and you can tell the person to take a hike

As to the elephant in the room that someone mentioned - nope, I don’t see it. I came here whien it was free. I think it’s worth $35 to give it a try in 2018. Beyond that, this is your baby to manage however you choose.  Certainly your business or financial plans are of no interest to me

Judith
People are generally as happy as they allow themselves to be. Abraham Lincoln

Offline Judith

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #270 on: December 28, 2017, 09:06:46 PM »
Something unnecessary, but maybe a nice thing to have is a thumbs up or equivalent button

So many times another person says exactly what i’m thinking, but they say it so much better :)
People are generally as happy as they allow themselves to be. Abraham Lincoln

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #271 on: December 28, 2017, 09:10:28 PM »
Something unnecessary, but maybe a nice thing to have is a thumbs up or equivalent button

So many times another person says exactly what i’m thinking, but they say it so much better :)

The closest thing the board has is a "karma" feature.  It was installed many moons ago, but many members didn't like it because it felt a bit like a popularity contest.
The road to our success is always under construction.
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Offline Elephun

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #272 on: December 28, 2017, 09:13:35 PM »
Something unnecessary, but maybe a nice thing to have is a thumbs up or equivalent button

So many times another person says exactly what i’m thinking, but they say it so much better :)

thumbs up!

Offline Lisa

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #273 on: December 28, 2017, 09:16:09 PM »
Something unnecessary, but maybe a nice thing to have is a thumbs up or equivalent button

So many times another person says exactly what i’m thinking, but they say it so much better :)

The closest thing the board has is a "karma" feature.  It was installed many moons ago, but many members didn't like it because it felt a bit like a popularity contest.

The problem with "karma" as a substitute for a "like" or "thumbs-up" button is that it relates to the member, not to their post.  Their total "karma" rises or falls, but doesn't necessarily ID the post the person granting karma liked...

which is why we rejected it as (essentially) a popularity contest.

HTH,

Lisa

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #274 on: December 28, 2017, 09:19:00 PM »
Something unnecessary, but maybe a nice thing to have is a thumbs up or equivalent button

So many times another person says exactly what i’m thinking, but they say it so much better :)

The closest thing the board has is a "karma" feature.  It was installed many moons ago, but many members didn't like it because it felt a bit like a popularity contest.

The problem with "karma" as a substitute for a "like" or "thumbs-up" button is that it relates to the member, not to their post.  Their total "karma" rises or falls, but doesn't necessarily ID the post the person granting karma liked...

which is why we rejected it as (essentially) a popularity contest.

HTH,

Lisa

Yes; that's true.  It does seem to say "you're swell" or "you're not" instead of showing agreement or disagreement with the content of the posts.

A bit ad hominem.
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Offline Joyce P

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #275 on: December 28, 2017, 09:30:27 PM »
Sent my 2018 membership via Paypal. I'm ID'd there as Joyce Plunkett.

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #276 on: December 28, 2017, 09:34:06 PM »
Sent my 2018 membership via Paypal. I'm ID'd there as Joyce Plunkett.

Received; thank-you! You're all ready to go. :)
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Offline Elephun

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #277 on: December 28, 2017, 09:35:10 PM »
DL doesn't owe anyone an explanation or her plans for attracting new members. At the same time, I think it's perfectly reasonable to want some assurance that SG will continue to attract new members before making a monetary commitment. Unless or until DL is ready to share her plans, I don't think some current unpaid members will be able to decide to become paying members for 2018. At least that's the situation I would have been in had my 2017 contribution not rolled over to 2018.

Offline DragonLady

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #278 on: December 28, 2017, 09:49:19 PM »
DL doesn't owe anyone an explanation or her plans for attracting new members. At the same time, I think it's perfectly reasonable to want some assurance that SG will continue to attract new members before making a monetary commitment. Unless or until DL is ready to share her plans, I don't think some current unpaid members will be able to decide to become paying members for 2018. At least that's the situation I would have been in had my 2017 contribution not rolled over to 2018.

I'm not hiding any plans.  I just have to focus on one thing at a time, and right now my focus is getting us ready to move to a more stable platform.

Otherwise we're trying to attract new members to a site that can't handle them.  When we can handle a thousand people with ease, and without crashing or "forbidden" errors, then we can worry about how to bring a thousand people.

I believe we'll see more posts from the people we have when the aggravations of fighting with the errors goes away.

The road to our success is always under construction.
If you should have any trouble with any aspect of the forums, just email me: dl@artisanssquare.com

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Offline Elephun

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Re: The future of SG
« Reply #279 on: December 28, 2017, 09:54:18 PM »
DL doesn't owe anyone an explanation or her plans for attracting new members. At the same time, I think it's perfectly reasonable to want some assurance that SG will continue to attract new members before making a monetary commitment. Unless or until DL is ready to share her plans, I don't think some current unpaid members will be able to decide to become paying members for 2018. At least that's the situation I would have been in had my 2017 contribution not rolled over to 2018.

I'm not hiding any plans.  I just have to focus on one thing at a time, and right now my focus is getting us ready to move to a more stable platform.

Otherwise we're trying to attract new members to a site that can't handle them.  When we can handle a thousand people with ease, and without crashing or "forbidden" errors, then we can worry about how to bring a thousand people.

I believe we'll see more posts from the people we have when the aggravations of fighting with the errors goes away.
Thanks DL!